Ethiocross Blog

Hi dear paulos Shem own you OK,even i didn't finish the statement what a comment, why you do this. if u don't understand you better shush know nothing

Thank you,
Be blessed!

ብዕረኛው ለመሆኑ በእውቀትህ ነው ወይስ በመንፈስ የጻፍከው ? በዕውቀት ከሆነ መልካም ደራሲ ይወጣሃል በመንፈስ ተመርተህ ከሆነ ይህ የእግዚአብሄር መንፈስ አይደለም ለእግዚአብሄር የቀናህ መስሎህ እግዚአብሄርን እያሳዘንክ ነው (እንግዲህ የሚጥል ሰውን የጣለ አይደለም መንፈስ ቅዱስን በእናንተ እንዲኖር የሰጠውን እግዚአብሄርን ነው እንጂ 1ኛ ተሰ. 4፣8)ልትፈርድ ዙፋኑን ማን ሰጠህ የቀናህለት እግዚአብሄር እንዳልሆነ እውነት ነው ስለዚህ ብዕረኛው ስለድፍረትህ ንስሃ ግባ ጌታ ለእያንዳንዱ እንደየስራው መጠን ይከፍል ዘንድ ዋጋው በእጁ አለ የሆነው ትክክል ባይሆን ሰዎች ባደረጉት ተጸጽተው ንስሃ ገብተው እንዲመለሱ ከመጸለይ በቀር እያንዳንዳችንም ራሳችንን ብንመለከት አጥርተን እናያለን ይሄኔ እኛ አይን ውስጥ ግንድ ይኖራል ኢየሱስ ያድናል

እረ ወሬ ትተን እንጸልይ

beababal aznalew yetru poletikegna amelkaketnew

god bless u powlos tru aithall!

ለጳውሎስ
ከኦቶዶክሳዊ አንባቢ
የአሿሿሙ ሁኔታ አዲስ ቢሆንብኝም ሐዋርያት ግን ለቤ/ክርስቲያን ያሰፈልጋሉ ሥላጣን ያላቸው የሚገስጹ ሽማግሌዎች ሊኖሩ ይገባል

ለነገሩ እኔ አንተ ወጣት ስለህንን ይህ ቶሎ አይገባንም እናም ፓስተር ዳንኤል ደካማ ጎን ቢኖረውም በሥልጣን ቤ/ክር/ሊመራ ይችላል
አንተ ግን ፍጻሜውን ሳታይ በጣም ተቆጥተሃል አሁን አንተ ያንድ ቤተ ክር/መሪ ብትሆንና ሰዎች መልካም መስሎ የታያቸውን ሲያደርጉ ብታይ
አንተም ይህ አይነት ሥልጣን እንደሚያስፈልግህ ይገባህ ነበር

እነዚ ሰዎች እንዳተ ወጣት በነበሩበት ጊዜ አንዳተ ያስቡ ነበር "ልጅ ሆኘ እንደልጅ አስብ ነበር"እንዳለው ጳውሎስ ፡አሁን ግን የልጅነትን ጸባይ ስለተው ይኸው እንደ እድገታቸው ትልቅ ነገር ማሰብ ቻሉ
ይሁዳ ሴቲቱ ለጌታ ባደረገችው ሽቶ ለምን እንደተበሳጨና ከጌታ ያገኘውን መልስ ደጋግምህ አጢነው

ደግሞ ሁለት ወይም ሦስት ሆነው ተስማምተው ቢየሱስ ስም ያደርጉት ነገር
በሰማይ እንደሚጸና ማወቅ አለብህ።
ጌታ አበቦች ብብዛት በመጋዛታቸው ድግስ በመደገሱ እንዳተ የሚበሳጭ እንዳይመስልህ ጌታ ጠባብ አእምሮ የለውምና ይህ ጉዳዩ አይደለም።

ሽማግሌዎች ለወጣቱ ይልቀቁ ብለሃል በዚህ እስማማለሁ ሆኖም ግን እንዳተ በበጎ ህሊና የማይመሩ ሁሉም መጥፎ መስሎ የሚታያቸው ፍንዳታ ወጣቶች ግን አያስፈልጉንም።
አገልግሎትና መሪነት ይለያያሉ አንተ ወንጌልን አገልግል እነሱ ደግሞ ሊመሩህ ይገባል
ይህን አስተያየት የስጠሁህ ያልተለወጠ ያበሻ ማይንድ ስለ አየሁብህ ነው።
ፕሮቴስታንቱ ሕዝቡን ከኦርቶዶክስ ማፈለሱ ካልቀረ ሥራት ሊይዝና አገሪቱን
ከማበላሸት መታደግ አለበት እንም እንዳንተ ሁሉንም የሚቃወም ስው ካለ ግን በጣም ያስዝናል በውነት ንሰሀ ግባ ስለዳንኤል ሐዋርያነት በሰማይ የተወሰነውን አታውቅምና ወጤቱን ብትግሥት ጠብቅ
የፖለቲከኞችን ንግግር ደግሞ እንደምሳሌ እየጠቀስህ በማንም ላይ መለጠፍ የለብህም የፓስተር ዳን ኤል ሹመት ማንንም አይጎዳም የክርስቶስንም ክብር አይነካም እየተንካ ያለው ግን ያንተ አመለካከት ብቻ ነው።

ከታዛቢ ኦርቶዶክስ

God bless you, Brother Paulos. We need to pray for them as well as their misguided followers.

I hope Pr. Daniel and responcible people will read this comment, and say what do they think.
There is God in heaven who will judge all of us.
May God bless all of us, in following in his foot steps.

Hi paul,
why allways blame the man of GOD? You know Journalism is not the wisdom of GOD; you can use this Knowledge in ETV or Ethio-radio not for church. He is your brother in christ; tell him face to face. Do not tell to everbody about your broither disagreement to media. This is not biblical.

GOD BLESS U
WAKUMA BEKELE

Some good points are raised. Both sides, however, are emotionally charged accusations and defenses. What we should have come along is the fact that this type of apostolic appointment biblical or just traditional (or worse, personal and syndicate?)
Paulos may have condoned the new generation at the expense of the "old" who never come up with biblical sanctions on the so called 'beale-simet'(በዓለ ሢመት). Biblically speaking, there are two types of apostles. The first type are the 12 appointed by our Lord. The second are those sent by the church. The term hawarya is derived from the Ge'ez verb (ሐወረ ሖረ) which simply mean to go. The original (Greek)term also is the same apostello (from which 'apostle' is derived means one that is sent, sent with a messsage and with authority.
The term simply means a miissionary. Paul was such one. And from the Paul we know in the New Testament, he would have disdained such a pompous ceremony as the one made in Addis this September. Was pastor Daniel being sent by the church to some remote place to preach the good news? If so the term would be right. Of course all the regalia is more than excess. We send missionaries and no church would do such abhorrence.
In my personal opinion the whole በዓለ ሢመት was a fiasco, a debacle, and a sound defeat of modern day "church leaders". That was what Paulos was stressing in presenting it in black and white. Let us be biblical in what we do and let us go back to the Bible!!!

You did good. Modern day church has to know that the Office of Apostleship has long ceased. This office has never been put to work either by Church Fathers or Ancient Church. The 12 Apostles, Paul, Barnabas, Silas and many other apostles at the time of the NT served the Lord by receiving direct revelation from Him as the book of the New Testament was not histomade ready.These apostles have become foundations of the Church through their teaching. Some of their revelations have been written in the New Testament but still some haven't. With the coming in to being of the New Testament no one can serve the Lord by receiving another revelation. The are other criteria of apostleship which I cannot say much on this comment.
Those calling themselves "apostles" at this time of ours are fooling themselves and are also trying to fool the Church.
I think Pastor Daneil has made a historical mistake in calling himself and allowing others to call him an "apostle". Dr. Tolosa, Dr. Bete, Dr. Alemu who were present on the cermony are all despicable.

dear brother i would like to express my appreciation to Ur insightful biblical critics which i firmly believe are contributing a lot for those who want to learn. i like Ur way of putting the truth, u are really able to discern the truth from the reality and subjective everyday encounters of life which seem carry the truth. i adore the Lord for what he is doing through u. thanks

This is what I wrote to the writer of the article when I read if for the first time:

Brother Paulos:

First of all, thank you and God bless you for sharing. It is with a great saddness that I read this "story". On the other side, I read this with great fear too. It just shows how corrupted today's church has become. And when some entity [whether it is a government or a church or an organization] is showing a sign of corruption, I say it is time for it to be changed with a new one. For example, during Jesus' time, Judiasim [and it's leaders] was so much corrupted; and it fall, and was replaced with Christianity. By the same token, I believe that The Day of The Lord [not another form or organization of worship] is going to replace this corrupted "church" of our day.

The 65,000 dollar question is "what shall we do about it?" It a hard question, and I don't think we have the answer. It is on the hand of our LORD. However, as much as it is hard, just like you so elequontly wrote this, we just keep on fighting with our pen [and mouth]. That means, we don't keep quite as most want us to do. Many of the leaders [and their blind followers] would want us to keep our mouth shut; and discourage us, we keep on going; and we refuse to be quited. So I give you my encouragement, and prayer to keep your eyes wide open, and make ready your pen as sharp as you can. So help you God too.

May the Grace of God be upon you!
Your brother in Christ.

Pulos I don't think that the issue of Apostelic is Ur proffesion. Better for u 2 to discuss on the issues of Computer and Modern tecnology, since u r expert on the field. The issue of Apostleship needs further insight via wise study in the higher theological institution. I see from Ur comment rush feeling and emotion. Please argue your statement from the View of the Holy Scripture. You came up with weak premises.
Haile Aradaw, Berlin

Dear Brother Paulos God Bless U for your courageous and bold action in reponding to such a critical issue. The way you questioned what you saw on that day is correct and we should do a lot of discussion abot it. Though i believe there are issues that need to be separately dealt.

Keep it up!

God Bless U

God Bless you brother It is absolutely right to correct godly persons. practicaly everything and everybody belong to God. The Comments given here from begining to end all facts. This writer attempted to edify the Pastors for which he showd be commended. He showed them their weaknesses so that they would repent and be corrected. since God revealed thire weaknesses to them it is my wish that they would be corrected.may God bless this writer.

ወንድም እንዳልልህ የጌታ ነገር አልገባህም ርእ ሱ በኢትዮጵያ አለ? ማለትህ ዪገርማል ለለላው ከተሰጠ እግዚአብሄር ለሰው ፊት አያደላም እና ለሁሉ ተሰጥቶአል

HI PAUL,
I think, you have raised a lot of sensitive and serious spiritual abuses, i don't think you have defamed anyone, you raised issues for our future. I am one of your fan because I read your book, and i have also got some opportunities to read your magazine, you are fair, let God bless you.

Bless you dear.keep it up.

enezihen ena lelochenm yebetekristian abatoch merioch Geta abzeto ybarkachw.hawaryanet lebetkristian tsetwal.anten gen men akateleh wendema menfeshn mermir.yeh tekawami menfes kante endirek tselote new.yane gendu kayneh weto aterteh tayale.lemehonu ante endih dutanegn kene wedia lasar yasegneh menyehon?ewnet begetatsega tamnaleh?? begetatsega eneh abatoch ante endakalelkew siyhon waga yekefelu,bezumekera yedersebachew lezarewa btekrestian ezih medres geta yetetekemebachew yekiber ekawoch yegeta bariyawoch nachew. wondeme antes? kewedate neh wyes kemengedachew wetew dar komew abuwara kemibetnuteneh.geta meheretun lenena lante yadirgelen.feraj dagna belay bezufanuly ale ante yilek temar tseliy...betrumba keristina ayzelekem...ke toronto

well the thing is, everything you have said is correct. I mean I can understand what u meant. Everything you have said, as I have read and tried to understand, is correct. But the point that I can not agree upon is your loss of patient at the beginning. You said that you have waited for Paster Daniel only for about 4 weeks. So you think you waited long. Before all this happened it was better if you have used the godly patient that the holy spirit keep in all of us and ask paster Daniel in person, then you would have got answers for all this confusing thing. "teregagteh betetebek noro yehe hulu zelefa aytebekehem neber endegenam lemeteyekachew teyakewoch meles tagegnelachew neber" and am not trying to say that you will get correct answers for all of your questions, but at least it would have reduced the intensity.

thank you, God bless you for every thing

Why do people in Africa usually fall in love with titles? I remember IdAmin of Uganda who claimed about 14 titles before his proper name. Every body remembers Mengistu Hailemariam who had also a number of titles like: Abiyotawi Meri, Yeministroch mikir bet liqe - menber, president, guad liqemenber, Yetor teqlai azazge, Shaleqa, Colonel,etc...Today in Church we see similar patterns as well:- in one Amharic magazine I saw one funny person who used to be in LA with three giant titles before his proper name as follows: Dr..Pastor..professor B...In todays article Paulos Fekade showed us one more of the same : Brother..Pastor..Apostle...??? My question is why these people are in fond such qualifying terms? I wish they would take a lesson from Gebre-Gundan who work relentlessly and never had any other name than simple Gebre-Gundan.

Even though I didn't attend the ceremony & witnessed on first hand, I have totally understood what you want to say. All I want to say is be blessed........... keep up the good work. I always adore your articles b/ce u speak the truth with great boldness only.... may the lord keep u to be his real servant all the day of ur life. Mestehaf Kidus Bicha.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Amen

dear brother i would like to express my appreciation to Ur insightful biblical critics which i firmly believe are contributing a lot for those who want to learn. i like Ur way of putting the truth, u are really able to discern the truth from the reality and subjective everyday encounters of life which seem carry the truth. i adore the Lord for what he is doing through u. thanks

Hi all,

The expression of opinion based on a critical investigation of anything done in the name of God, as long it's scriptural, is a God-given, biblical right of every christian. We are encouraged to investigate any person who comes to us bearing the name of God...noone is above accountablity. Another funny thing I noticed from these comments is that people don't realize that they are excercising this wonderful God-given right of critcizing when they're voicing out their negative opinions against Paulos for doing the same thing that they're now doing... those of you who write here express your opinions saying "Paulos, you ought to be ashamed of yourself for writing this" are doing the EXACT same thing that he did through his article and it's a wonderful thing as long as you give enough reason for saying what you are saying...and needless to say, the fact that we are brothers and sisters should call for the simplest of all things: to be courteous to one another and logical while expressing our opinions!
God bless you Paulos, we do need someone to speak up boldly...only then can the generation be saved from learning a mistaken and non-biblical practice.

Hi Paulos:

I actually read the story with a great pity and sadness. It has been a very long time since I have observed the degradation and corruption of the existing church. Even though God wants the whole body of Christ to glorify and match with His Son for the wedding, most of the current churches are however now dominated and led by just one "giant" pastor or bishop or pop or what have you. I don't think this was originally in the heart of God when the church was first built from the death and resurrction of Christ. God actually built and produced the church from Christ so it will be Christ's body. Christ is the head and the church is His body and we all are hence the members of the body. As members, we should all live by expressing Christ. As seen in different places, the members of the body are not functioning and it is common to see only one "giant" man in churches. I completely disagree with the way the church is currently functioning. While only one man is doing all the jobs, the rest of the members of the body are only quiet and silent members. The church is the building God is making for His dewelling place which is the New Jerusalem. How can we therefore be built just by one man leadership and one man spiritual activties?

So, your comment with regards to brother Daniel (I prefer to call all saints as brothers than giving them any prefix prior to their names). I appreciate it very much. It is very important to point that only Jesus should be glorified in the church and when He is glorified, the whole body (not only one giant spritual man) will be glorified. I don't know why all that very expensive and unnecessay ceremony has been held just to uplift or glorify a servant of God. So, I treasure your dareful and bold comments, brother.

Yours,

Solomon.

በዚህ ጒዳይ ላይ ከተሐድሶ ዘመን ጀምሮ ፕሮቴስታንቶች ልክ የያለመሆናቸሁን ስንገልጽ ቆይተናል፡፡ የሚሰማን ግን አላገኘንም፡፡ የኦርቶዶክስም ሆነች የካተቶሊክ በቤተ ክርስቲያን ዛሬ ሐዋርያት እንዳሉ ቢያስተምሩም እንደ ሉተርና ከካልቪን ያሉ የተሐድሶ ሰዎች ይህን አስተምሮ አጥብቀው ተቃወሙ፡፡ ከ500 ዐዓመት በኋላ ይህን እውነት እየተቀበላችሁ ስለመጠጣችሁ እናመሰግናለን፡፡ ይህ ለበቤተ ክርስቲያናችን ለካቶሊክ ትልቅ ድል የምሥራች ነው፡፡ እንግዲያው መኮትለካችሁን ልብ በሉ፡፡ እልልል

Thank you Brother Paulos,

I have been praying for these "great
men" for the last 25 years. These brothers have devaited from the biblical/Evangelical Christianity about 25 years ago. The Ethiopian Evanglical Fellowship and other serious ministrs as well as the leaders of their respective local churches should advise them to refrain from unbiblical teaching and practices. Many fellow christians and genuine servants of the Lord have been hurt by these religious tycoons. We all need to confess our sins, repent, reconile and heal. The church is sick and weak because of us. The Holy Spirit is grieved, yet we do not even know it. We are far removed from Christ-centered biblical Christianity which adorns humility and simplicity. Our model is Christ and His disciples (New Testament order).

The electtonic medium is not an appropriate forum to discuss thoroughly some of the damages that are borne by the sick church, the Body of Christ.

I believe the order they are trying to establish in Ethiopia is not grounded in biblical doctrines and practices. Many Christians question the integrity of these leader eventhough they attend their churches and conferences.

Repentance and healing are the only remedy. It all starts with self examination before the Lord. I believe we should bring this incident to the attention of our respective churches as a matter urgency. Churches should discuss it and pray for these leaders. It might be our turning point.

Traditionally, October is pastors' appreciation month here in USA. I do not know if this was meant to be an appreciation event which blew out of propoetion. These pastors or authentic leaders any where should be appreciated but not to the level of Christ's 12 'Apostleship'. To answer Paulos' question, yes, there are apostles in Ethiopia. They are gospel preachers who pioneer establishing churches any where. They are local/national missionaries sent by their churches. There are also foreign missionaries snet by foreign churches or denominations. They are apostles.

One of those apastors had been talking 'yekeber agelglot' in the last 13 years. Could this be it?

Let us be very sensitive and loving toward each other, even to our beloved Borher Pauols.

May the Lord have mercy on all of us in Jesus Name. Amen.

ለምን ሐዋርያ በባል እንደ ፈለጉ ግልጽ ነው፡፡ ነገር ግን ክርስቲያኑ ማኅበረሰብ እንደዚህ ዐይነቶቹን አፈንጋጭ ትምህርቶች በርጋታ የሚመረምረው መቼ ይሆን?

Dear Saints,
I am very amazed in reading the comments of some of the visitors.For example :Haile Aradaw from Berlin.This brother advised Paulos to focus only in his profession namely computer science and not to comment on spritual matters!What kind of comment is it? Is this brother really living in Berlin where civilized thinking is at its peak? Think of apostle LUKE! He was a medical practitioner apart from his apostellic service!So why don't you say to Saint LUKE the same comment? Sorry brother ,may be you are living in Berlin ! But the fact is ,Berlin is not able to eradicate your Barbaric way of thinking!! I strongly refer you to Holyspirit so that you will get the respective treatment!

Hi paul I am appriciat you take this conversation with people. but don't bother them A lot they were a God men.there is no perfect person. I am agree with you. we have to tell them what they did and what they mess. but, we are the boby encoreg them abot the past tell them todays mistake and we have to love them, don't judge any body is not good for you. Truth with love.

ወገኖች እባካችሁ ሁሉን በማስተዋል እና አካሉን በሚያንፅ መልኩ ቢሆን ከተቻለ ፀሀፊው ፓ.ዳንኤልን ለማግኘት ሞክሮ እንዳልተሰካለት ተነግሮአል እንደ እግዚያብሄር ቃል ደጋግሞ ለማግኘት ቢሞክርና ወይም ሊያገኙቸው በሚችሉ ወንድሞች ይህንን ፅሁፍ ቢያቀርብ መልካም ነበር የወንድሞችን "ስህትት" እንደዚህ ማንም በሚጠቀምበት መገነኛ መጠቀሙ ከጥቅሙ ጙዳቱ ያመዝናል በአለም ያሉ መገናኛ ብዙሀን ታዋቂ ሰዋችን መተቸት እንደ ትልቅ ገድል ያደርጉታል እኛ ዘንድ ግን ይህ አስፈላጊ አይመስለኝም ለወንጌል ስርጭት ለክርስቶሰ አካል ለመንግስቱ ስር እንቅፋት እንዳንሆን ድርጊቱ የፈፀሙ አባቶችም ሆኑ ቅሬታ ያለቸው ወደሚያስታርቀው የእግዚያብሄር ቃልና ቅዱስ መንፈሱ እንመለስ ፍርድን የሚሰጥ ጌታ በዙፋኑ አለ። ጌታ ይባርካችሁ፡፤

ዳንኤል ጀርመን

This the first article I have read from this individual commentator. After reading this article I found out that this particular individual is famous for writing these kind of so over the top comments in the past. With out knowing his back ground just by reading this article one can easily come up with three characteristics of the writer.
1- He a very good writer.
2- He is well versed in current affairs
3- He has very shallow theological understanding.
4- Finally it is clear that he has very little spiritual experience.

He declares his intention of saving our church from so many of these "old and out dated" men of God and he put forward his insult representing and on behalf of the entire church of Ethiopia. WHO IS THIS MAN? IN WHAT KIND OF WAYS HAS THE LORD USED HIM TO IMPACT HIS GENERATION BESIDES WRITTING THESE KINDS OF ARTICLES? WHAT KIND OF WORK DOSE HE DO?
PERSONALLY I HAVE NO OBJECTION IN RAISING THE ISSUE BUT TO DO IT IN A WAY HE DOSE IS ALMOST SLADERES. OR I HAVE NO OBJECTION HIM WRITTING HIS OPENION WITH OUT PUTTING HIMSELF AS THE SOLE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE WHOLE CHURCH.

Am surprised the way Lou K concluded Paulos when he said: He has little spiritual experience and shallow theological understanding. Well, I expected at least one sound theological argument from you. Or else I will take it that your theological understanding is as vague. Besides, I don't think there should be a certain criterion one should fulfill to be able to challenge his brother in Christ. Lets all be ready for a rational discussion. Don't discourage people from exercising their God-given freedom.

God bless all.

I am coming again to comment briefly on some of the immediate above bloggers such Brother Gemechis and Brother Lou. Gemechis is elated in that Protestants have come close to accepting the "Apostleship" like the Catholics. But not so; I think the major difference is not only this one subject. This is only one of the 95 points of departure of Dr. Martin Luther in 1517. It means that these Protestants are less than 1% Catholic in their doctrine. So you have a lot of homework to do, my brother.


Brother Lou K., I agree with you that Brother Paulos has a shallow knowledge of theology. But, so are Paulos' subjects of the day. None of those "great men" has degree in real theology. They might have taken some theological course or class in a university, Bible college, training center or graduate school. That does not make them theologians as much as being thelogian does not make them spiritual. We have to understand that many of our pastors are not theologically inclined, may be because of the subject being taxing in terms of time and material load. I believe seminarians can answer to that. Also, bear in mind that going to school for theology was considered unspiritual, drying, waste of time and resource among most Evangelical or Pente circles until very recently. One of these brothers used to openly criticize and resent his "theological" schooling saying, "I pray that God would wash away all what I learned in seminary". Many of our highest degree holders despise theology. I heard one renown pastor publically saying, "I will never go to school for theology". You have to understand that many of us are theologically or biblically quasi-illeterate. Now, I hope I am not offending any one. But that is the hurting and healing truth and reality. Let me assure you that Brother Paulos could be a good candidate for theological training. We need leaders or communicators like him who speak the truth boldly. Like most of us, he lacks both spiritual and theological knowledge but he is genuine and sincere. My advice to him might be that he should stick close to his spiritual mentor, pastor or preacher to discuss these kinds of issues. God may use him more in provoking the thoughts of our leaders and alerting the church against unbiblical doctrines and practices such as this one.

To my beloved Catholic or Orthodox brother above and many others, I would say, "Bible, Bible, Bible not tradition, tradition, tradition".

Gemechis, regarding your question as to when Christians going to come together to thoroughly discuss these kinds of issues, I do not know. But, that is a very good question. However, we may first need to accept and respect each other as CHRISTIAN. Then leaders from all sides should start DIALOGUE. I think, the Protestant Church itself has to communicate with itself, to begin with. These very leaders, "aposles" or the Ethiopian Evangelical Churches' Fellowship should initiate and facilate such a dialogue that would lead us to reconciliation. For your information, the Pope has recently come a long way of accepting married ministers for the priesthood. Praise the Lord, he broke the tradition. Abune Paulos, who graduated from a Protestant seminary might also be willing to go a step ahead to a 'defined center'. I believe that center is "sola scriptura", Martin Luter's decry. The Bible is the only magnet that can draw us all the universal Christan Unity. Then, we may be called CHRISTIANS, not necessarily Orthodox, Catholic or Protestant.

Finally, let me say this. It is not about who is right or wrong. We have all sinned and come short of the glory (Rom. 6:23) including the Pope, the preist, the Patriarch, the Pastor, the apostles/missionaries, deacon, disciple, believer, etc. If we trusted Jesus as our only Savior, we are saved saints at the point of our rebirth (Jn. 3:16, Jn. 1:12). Love is our mark. So let us pick the fallen and resuce the perishing. I pray that these and other leaders would go back and reconcile with the ones they hurted before they start preaching on Sunday. How can we hurt someone and stand on the podium to preach the love of God? How dare we give or partake the Lord's Supper? That is what Paulos is taking about, folks. Many have gone astray, backslidden because of the hurt they experienced in the church by their leaders.

May the Lord have mercy on all of us.

Maranatha!

i can't say nothing i don't know any thnig about this, and i don't know any thing what GOD SAY, if tehy r rong we have to pray to them they our lovly brother we lov them
There is God in heaven who will judge all of us.
May God bless all of us, in following in his foot steps

Hello:

I've read both Paulos's article and most of the comments above. I see that several commentators talk about Paulos's theological deficiency.

Can any one of you point out those theological deficiencies in Paulos's article? My hope is that you'll also provide a theologically sound reason why what you say is correct and in light of that Paulos's theological deficiency should be corrected.

Waiting to hear from you,
TGW

Dear Brother Paulos,

God bless you for your effort to show us what it takes to challenge those "Tycoons" of modern church movement of the diaspora. I am very thankful that you pointed out the issue revolving an apostleship and the subjects of this issue. Your gentle nudge with reality is also admirable. Exposing their intention and character is also very truthful and commended. Yes, these people have been destabilizing the church for many years by making groups that praised them. They worked for their glory not the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Thus, they have been trying to destroy love fellowships for their personal gain. However, the title you used and the supporting document for your argument is a little bit wrong. What I am trying to say is that Dr. Dereje Kebede is not by any means a good example for this kind of argument. Because he himself is in the other side of the spectrum. In fact, Dereje has a disregard for the church of Jesus Christ and has never been a member of Ethiopian church (never been taken to task by a church for a long period of time) and yet he would like to be heard as a leader of church. In my opinion your wonderful critique has been tarnished by it. For example, Dereje called the album "yemisgana ken leigziabeher" in order to slap the face of those young people who labored to encourage him not to show us that he is humble. he did it "in your face" kind of thing. If he was humble he did not isolate himself a quarter a century from the fellowship of brethren. Otherwise your kinder gentler advice is welcome.

God bless you.

Dear peter, I readed your all comments what you wrote about our seniore pastors, I like your boldness, It unusual in our culture.keep it up for bleesing and encouagement.I would like to ask you. If you praied to wrote those strong(disgress)words.Is that from God?
Is that God's welling? to wrote those words about Gods people, what ever they did they are still God's people. Think about what they did on their past life. Even if they are doing wrong the mighty God who alive for ever give them justice for what they did. When Devid was doing sin on his life, God was punished him, but still GOd was with him and loved him until he died, so let just pray for what we are seeing , feeling about God's people, and for our selves until we see God's mercy. May God bless you my brother!Jesus is coming soon, also we all will get rest until then let's pray. from your sister through christ.
Washington DC

Now a day, it has become classic writing critics in most if not all Ethiopian magazines. I have read quite few of those and it was not first time reading Paula’s opponent idea. Though many of those critics have given readers new insights and made some of us to think critically, some of them only showed the talents and capabilities of how the writers can really write.
I was not only stunned from what are said in this opposing viewpoints that Paul pointed out, but also confused and did not quite understand what is tried to say. What really left me astonished is that while spent pages to disapprove the ceremony that took only hours in “Ewa Convention center” in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia on September 2, 2002, the 40 years service that the servant committed for and accomplished only covered in two paragraphs. This kind of unbalanced critics not only misleads people who may not know much about the servant, but also will leave most of us to ask the whole intention of the writer.
Paul also dispute the many spent for the ceremony at the “Ewa Convention” if should have been used spreading gospel. This made me to think how many of us, including Paul himself, spent our money and time in different ways while we can use them to spread gospel. Just because ours, including Paula’s, way of spending money did not reveal in a place like “Ewa Convention” to the public, does not mean we are in the right track. Therefore, prior accusing others for things like this it would be better to do what the Bible tells us in Luke 6:41 (Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye).

Although, the writer utilized sharp languages and thoughts in his article, the analysis still is not so clear. It also touches so many areas that made me too difficult for the readers to summarize the whole point of the claim. Is it there is no apostolic office (gift) at work today? Or Pastor Daniel should not have apostolic gift or the ceremony was not acceptable? What does Paul want us to grasp?

Finally, I suggest we all should be respectful to these servants who came to this point in many ups and downs. They have done what they can for the kingdom of God in serving his people. They are human beings just like us; they may make mistakes as they work in what they believing in, but that does not disqualify them for what they are called. In addition, only those who are willing to work make mistakes. Therefore, better for us to be thankful to God about them; pray for them when we feel they are wrong. Above of all, let’s focus and stand together for the ultimate purpose of God regardless!

Dear Brother Paul,
This is an addendum to my last comment. As I said earlier, dear brother, I was encouraged by your boldness to confront and correct what has been done during the ordination of the office of apostleship to Pastor Daniel. All your observation was admirable.

Having said that, I would like to suggest one thing, that is your argument would have been more strong if you had backed it up with Scriptures instead of lyrics from Dr. Dereje's new album. In your own argument (which I agree), you said the ministers from US do not have the mandate to appoint an office because they are not part of the Ethiopian Church movement. In my opinion, the same truth should apply to Dr. Dereje since he is living in the US and is not an active participant in what God is doing in Ethiopia.

Otherwise, you have done a great job in tackling this issue in the media that the Lord has provided to you. In my opinion, when someone has done a grave mistake in public, he should be reprimanded before the people of God so that he can repent his sin, and also others can learn from his mistakes.

As many has suggested, Praying in private is necessary but not enough by itself. We need brothers like you to take risk for possible rejection trusting the Lord to bring justice and restoration for the transgressor. May the Lord help all of us to humble ourselves to be corrected so we can be good instruments for His glory.

In His Love

Dear brother TGW my point in questioning the theological depth of the writer is the fact that he has not put foreword any.
If he took the time to write all these pages in this very dramatic form just to criticize the ceremony and all who participate in it at least he should have made his argument Biblical y not by quoting some verse from a song by Derege Kebede.

I am not against raising the issue absent the name calling and degrading comments about people which is distasteful for me as a christian. I AM NOT AGINEST QUESTIONING THE LEADERS ETHER.

What is the purpose of this article besides its shocking insult which I think he used just to grab our attention

Dear paulos and all fellow brothers and sisters,be peace un to you!
i have read your articles and the first thing came to mind was ,is it true and the ppl on that stage were expressing their feeling in the way u have shown us? specially i was shocked by the blackmail- like words of brother Tolossa,if anyone misunderstood this kind of vain approaches,is he or she is a cursing one? how he dares to say that? It is not celebrated to be a pastor or being apostle in public that matters in my heart but why the servants of the living GOD chosen this kind of recognition after this whole up and downs of their spiritual life?What's title afterall if our LORD is with us? Paulos i was not in that place and i don't know ur intention but one thing i am telling u is to utter the truth which is in ur heart can never demand being a theologian,a philosopher,or another apostle,the fellows who have tried degrading Paulos with ur spiritual like demagoge ,have u ever asked that these pastors deeds in that september "celebration" has approved by the SPIRIT OF GOD? Some ppl even still don't want understand Dereje's "ye adnakot ken le egzabher" message even today after this kind of events u want slap his truth with ur highest "spiritual understanding" Let GOD give us the Spirit which guides Dawit through out his life ,that is the only thing who make us humble.GOD bless u Paulos and fellows around the world.

Brothers & Sisters in Christ.

Please don't be in hurry to reach a conclusion. Things are not always black & white as they seem,especially if seen in light of the Gospel & the help of Holly Spirit. I repented & regreat my initial decision before seeing the ceremony in question on DVD & reviewing the other side of the story. Also, we don't have to forget the basic principles of our Lord teachings regarding correcting, banishing & defaming others specially our leaders and elders. There is nothing easier than fault finding, specially when some one is serving for many years. We have also to ask our selves what our messages serve for God's kingdom & for the glory of our loving & merciful God. If alive & God willing,I will try to write in details what I really think about the whole issue.

God bless you all.

In His service;

M.M.T

"In my opinion, when someone has done a grave mistake in public, he should be reprimanded before the people of God so that he can repent his sin, and also others can learn from his mistakes." Iyosias, that's an excellent point I tried to say earlier. God bless.

Hi,
What a great discussion is that? I really wonder how we come across here to deal with our common problem without roaming around. This is what we need to do to teach others what I call brotherly discussion. Thank to our brother Pulos who bring up the back door discussions to the front. I know everyone has a problem about what is going on the church. We all are seeking a true church that able to show us the true face of Jesus, but not yet. Of course, no one says that our church fathers did nothing. They may do their best. The question is we are still in need of fathers who can set exemplary life by giving off themselves firstly to the Lord and to His people. Let us pray and discuss to do better at lest to our society. We are all way back form what is happening around the world. Let us have open mind to learn from others. I do not see any problem to make discussions ask questions, and make argument to know better. Who knows God may use it to show us his will in this time of darkness.

Dear Eyosias, I liked ur comment and would agree on much of the points you raised. It is true that Dereje is not a good example worthy of being mentioned in Paulos' article. Your reasoning is well stated when you said: Dereje had been absent from the Church of Christ in general and from the church of Ethiopia in particular. It is unfortunate that this person (Dereje) seems to still hanging onto his old times and claiming to be THE VOICE of a certain denomination (whom he himself failed to identify with) and assume leadership in terms of criticizing the church in a disrespectful manner. It is really very sad and totally unacceptable. Equally unacceptable is, the effort made by those groups (wetatoch)to celebrate. To that end, I congratulate Dereje for being courageous enough to take the risk of being criticized by not accepting the nonsense flutters of those so called celebrations done in Addis in his favor.

My question to you is that If you detest to the current apostolic fiasco in Paulos' article, why don't you then not detest to same YADNAQOT QEN drama that Dereje refused to endorse and recognize??? Think about it brother.

May God protect His church. Amen.

I imagine Brother Paulos as a talented young believer with a critical mind. I believe God is using him to ask a very critical question regarding the roles of the servants of the Ethiopian church today. To answer to the question, Is there apostleship in Ethiopia?, NO, Not the Apostleship like the 12 followers of the Lord in the first century. That unique office ceased when they died. The last to die was Apostle John. Biblically they have a special place in the coming Kingdom of Christ.

The apotleship is mentioned in the New Testament is mentioned as one of the offices of ministry of the gospel (Eph. 4: 10 and following) along with four others. These officers (minister or servants) are gifted to the Church, the Body of Christ for its edification (building up, spiritually). Just like there are evangelists, pastors, teachers or preachers, there are also apostles. Apostles pioneer organizing churches in one place and and move on to another. They are what we call missionaries today. Can one person have all these gifts or are these several persons. The answer is both. So we do certainly have these in Ethiopia. Yes, we have hundreds of them now. Praise the Lord. Both Ethiopian and foreign Evangelical missionaries have been working in Ethiopia since early 1900s and even ealier than that. Many of them were from Northern Europe, Canada and United States. There are so many books about them in the book shops in Ethiopia.

As to the qualifications of Christ's original Apostles, they were hand-picked by Jesus Himself. They were taught by Him directly. They came from different background. Many of them were fisher men in Palestine. They made their living mainly through fishing coop business. The Lord Himself was a carpenter/builder/cabinet maker, may be better said, engineer, like His adoptive father Joseph, the husband of Mary, His mother. I believe the Lord used the tlaent of His disciples (fishery and bakery) when He performed a miracle to feed the five thousand. He had to support his ministry crew consisting of twelve young men and a few women by working hard, may be day and night. So, the disciple had close personal relationship with Him and left us His legacy, the gospels. Apostle Paul sprang twenty years later and built on Christ's foundation popularizing the doctrines (teaching) of Jesus and preaching His physical resurrection Read Acts 8 following and all the epistles of Paul}.
Now Paul is a model missionary. He traveled far and wide, pioneered and planted churches in the old Roman Empire, trained many other missionareis and left a legacy for us to follow. He himself penned many of the epistles as inspired by the Holy Spirit. He was a well educted multitalented multitasker and philanthropist: philospher, lawyer, tailor, business man (making tents for the Roman soldiers, travelers, traders) educator, etc. He is too much for me to explain here! Most of he was a servant of the Risen Lord, Jesus Christ. Indeed he was a missionary and Apostle-extra-ordinaire of our Lord. Unlike, the Lord's, His crew consisted of well educated and talented people like Luke, the medical practioner, Apolos, the orator, etc. He did not make his living out of begging although he taught that missionaries must be suppoerted by benevolent beneficiaries or the very church that sends them (Study Romans and Corinthians).

We do have missioaries every where around the globe either sent by their local churches or mission organizations. We know some Ethiopian missionaries sent to Far East by local rural churchs in Ethiopia assisted by international mission organiztions. These are our apostles too. They are gifted to the Church Universal by our Sovefeign Lord.

Historically there have always been many liberal movements, mainly following revivals that try complicate the gospel by commercializing it. That was what Dr. Martin Luther and other reformers contended. Protestantism is built on the philosophy of the innerancy of the Word of God, the written and faithfully handed down inspired word of God. It is not based on human traditions that are liable to change with time and situation.

Undersandably, some circles want to reward accomplished ministers and achieved missionaries by offering them heirarchical position in the church today. So they come up with creative ideas that those who performed miracles, planted churches, etc. must be promoted to apostleship and so on. I think that would undermine the authority of the scripures and the Holy Spirit who quickens the word and makes it applicable in the life of the saints. Christ is the Only Head Shepherd of His Church, whether local or universal. These officers mentioned above are under-sheperds. They are servants of Christ, the Lord. They exercise spiritual authoriy over the body of Christ by virtue of their gift as recognized by the body itself. This is a matter of trusting and obedience to the leading of the Holy Spirit. It is a willful submission to Master on the part of the believers who make up the church. The servants' award and reward is in heaven before Christ the King, not here and now.

If we countinue in the trend we will be like the Orthodox and Catholic Churches that makes saints of their servants. Recently, I read that the Roman Catholic Church bishops were considering to assign sainthood to the late President Julius Nyerere of Tanzania, a Catholic statesman. He was not even a Priest or a Pope. What a short cut! How many martyrs we have who carried the gospel from Dembi Dolo to Debre Tabor, Addis Ababa to Agaro, Gidole to Gidaa in Eritrea, Dawro to Dibati, etc.? The Lord knows how many missionary martyrs died in the hands of resistant communities, traditionalists and zealous "Christians"? Whether we are alive or dead we all saints, if we trust Jesus, we are saved by His grace. We do not need the glamorous glorification ceremony. Let us leave it to the final JUDGE and KING, Jesus. Ersu liliq, ene lans yegebal! Amen!

A servant

Brother i realy like it! am reading some comments also its good to share our ideas GBU!
Neger gene hawariyanet teri ena yemagelgel guday engi bestergena yemisethe yekeber doctrte ayedelem! (Bale maerge ways serategna yemeiyasfelegen) . . .?

Dear Saint Fatima Wakjira
I give you a standing ovation to a well written, balanced and 'nutritious' comments on the whole issue. Above all, you made it so eloquently when you mentioned of hundreds and thousands of unnoticed indigenous missionaries in rural Ethiopia throughout centuries. The Lord knows who is his true Slave. My heart is burning when you mentioned how The Lord's Apostles made no claim of any title than delightfully accepting the agony and misery of carrying the Cross and living out their Christianity as they trained and coached by the Lord Himself and their predecessors. Unlike today's multitudes who call themselve as Pastors or Ministers who commercialize the eternal gospel for their own temporal gain, those real servants always stick to the old and golden principle of the Apostle John: Irsu Liliq Ine gin lans Yasfeligal. Glory be to God in Heaven for ever and ever Amen.
By the way, I would like to recommend everybody visiting this post read the beutifull comment by saint Fatuma Wakjira.

Dear brother Mersha, thank you for reviewing my comment and asking a very fair question in a humble way.
When I was commenting on Dr. Dereje's response to the young people who have prepared an appreciation day for him, I by no means was endorsing their actions. I believe that kind of appreciation was way extreme and unnecessary for any christian let alone to Dr.Dereje who has distanced himself from the fellowship of believers namely the body of Christ.
I was trying to point out to brother Paulos that Dr.Dereje's response in his song to the 'Adenakot ken' does not show that he is humble before God. He had a chance to correct these young over zealous brothers when he was interviewed in one of the Evangelical magazines. NO correction at that time from him!! But he waited to take advantage of the situation and come out as a 'shining christian' with his new album that he had for so long been working on. In his interview, he had told us that he was working on a new album. So why wait that long to refute their appreciation. If you heard the whole album, he has no good things to say about the body of Christ so it is no surprise that his hypocrisy was displayed under his seemingly spiritual lyrics.
Therefore, brother Paulos should not have used Dr Derege as a prime example for his argument. My focus was in this issue and not on the appreciation day.
I hope I have answered your question, but if not I do welcome your comment or question any time.
God bless you

God bless you brother for sharing us your concerns and questions.
I found it very critical that need to be dealt seriously.
We need people like you who see things a little deeper

Keep it up.

God bless

Tsega

Shalom! dear brother in Christ Jesus, Paulos. I read what you wrote it about apostleship of Pastor Daniel Mekonene. We know what God did in Pastor Daniel ministry. we give glory to God. We love and respect pastor Daniel.You did not deny it.Personally, I could not accept his apostleship ceremony and title.It does not seem biblical. I appreciate your article.It is balanced and critical. I agreed with you in general. It gives light for those, who do not see the problem easily and nearly. I think that you are the one who brought to public discussion and you gave your personal view from the scripture. Keep on it. The scripture is our final authority not popularity nor majority acceptance. Only The Holy Bible teachings judge on us and our ministry. Therefore saints let return to the Bible. Bless you. Shalom! in Him Getu Hagos

May I thank you brother Iyosias for the time you took to explain yourself viz a viz the foregoing discussion r/t Dereje.
You have clearly explained and I am more than satisfied. Thank you so much.
Understandably we crossed over this point of Dereje where as our main focus is still on Paulos' article. Without losing focus to the current discussions, however, I would like to respond in just few words on this subject.

I always maintained that it is quite un-Christian for people to relay agul mugesa.(or Kibir meqebabel)..and it is never a tradition among the true followers of Christ throughout the 2000 years. Actually, our Lord vividly taught to His disciple never to call one another as Memeher...instead He left an example to treat one another with respect and dignity and as good friends. He Himself called us FRIENDS, may His Eternal Name be glorified for ever and ever Amen!!!!!!!

I would rather argue that doing so (Yekibir qibibiloshu and memokashetu) was a notorious tradition of the communists that we even witnessed in our land. So, the practice of importing what is pompous and carnal from todays world to the Church of Christ should be denounced and stopped altogether. It doesn't matter who did this deadly mistake; both the young and the old will be hold accountable before our Judge - The Living God.

Again, it is unfortunate that the last album by Dereje has suffered its historic low in many ways. (Since this is not the right forum, I wouldn't want to dwell on this for long.) Unlike the other albums, this one critically falls short of a timely message we used to get through him. The night I listened to the CD, I could smell something unusual and my heart sunk inside of me. I was full of unexpressed sadness...balehubet teqemiche bizu tekezkugn. Indewetrow Minim yemiyanberkikegn, yemiatsnanagn woyinim yemiyanitsegn neger bematate. Indeferahutim alqere no one listens to that CD anymore. It just joined the club of the thousands of todays "Siga-Weled" albums that are short lived and with little spiritual value. Wotrom le propaganda yetederege minim aynet undertaking ultimately inde use-and-throw iqa dumped mederegu ayiqere new.

In light of this, I wish Paulos had used some other title from the Holy Bible that rightfully fit to the subject matter in discussion.

May God bless us all, Amen.

Dear Paulos,
your current article is an issue that everyone is talking about.I read some of both (appritiation & discouraging) comments;good things gives you happiness,bad things gives you experience both are essential for life.Anyway I would like to bless you.KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.

Dear Paulos, thanks for the article. please reflect on the two type of apostleship some bro and sis commented, especially on the one by Fatuma wakjira.

May God bless you abundantly brother Paulos. We really (desperately) need a person or people like you who have courage to reveal the truth and talk with boldness. Enough is enough! Let’s be God’s people not hypocrites. I hope there are few people out there like you out there. God has people in different era like you. Praise the Lord. We’re getting tired of hearing their preaches, teachings, curses… on their pulpit or their 'friends' pulpit. May God bring a new generation for his Kingdom, to build His house, to reach the people who need salvation and help, to fulfill His will …. If I’m not mistaken, ante ye Egeziabeheren kuta new yetekotaheu. Bless you, we love you, and we encourage you. Keep up!

Mr Fekadu has seen the issue from his side.He is entitled to his opinion.On the other hand Ethiopians at home and in Diaspora has decided and supported the procession of apostleship for Pastor Daniel.
Let me use this contemporary saying Gimelu yihedal wushoch yichohalu.I didn't mean the noun wusha for any body just for the purpose of using habesha parable.
let Fekadu’s opinion remain with him, leave us alone those of us who obeyed and happy with the beale simet.
Let’s learn share the joy of others rather than ye habesha qimbekel.
We do not want your sadness but we advise you this: take time and think about your comment we forgave you, you forgive yourself.
I rest my case
Darimu

Ethiocross needs principled editors. Not so long ago, Ethiocross editors were advertising Dr. Alemu Biftu, Dr. Tolosaa Gudina, etc as YeAmetu Talaq Saw. And now this. I think their first interest is to generate money by posting "Song of the Week" etc and not worry about the outcome of their decision. I hope they post my comments.

Re: From the Editor

Dear,

Usually we do not respond for every comment that is posted on www.ethiocross.com (even though we moderate all of them, it does not mean we agree with all comments that you read here.)
Our Principle is….
We like free spirit. We encourage constrictive criticism without attacking the person. Debating each other idea with respect, also accepting our difference what we thrive for.
Generally speaking those who labor for the body of Christ need to be respected and encourage at all time. However, when they do mistake and gets out of the way we need to tell them as well.
We cannot respond to all your accusation, but we need to tell you that…. Every articles, opinions and views that are expressed in Ethiocross.com are solely those of the writers. Unless clearly we say so. We do not just accept ideas that we agree only. As long as they are not out of biblical teaching we welcome all side.

www.Ethiocross.com is for all Christians beyond church.
Let’s be respectful to each other and engage on the conversation.

God bless you brother for sharing us your concerns and questions.
I found it very critical that need to be dealt seriously.

We Christina living USA are seriously tiered them, always they work and perching us to establish there kingdom, not establishing the Kingdom of GOD.

Dear Darimu,
What made u happy? (Here Some words were edited by Editor)Eseyew Esunis man aytolih!Or were u happy because God was glorified from that appointment? We want to share your happiness, if u tell us first ur cause? Do not forget that all Israel gave a mighty shout, so that the earth resounded when the arc of covenant was coming into their camp (1 Samuel 4:5-21). But finally they were defeated by the Palestines, their happiness turned into sadness. Why? Because God was not with them, though the arc of covenant what they trusted as the symbol of God`s presence was with them. Even finally it has been captured. Then was what the Ich`abod occurred .The glory left. What was ur symbol that made u happy to shout or asked us to join ur happiness? Were u happy because the ceremony took place or because of that u saw God the Son, who was in the likeness of Melckiz`edek, found a competent with His title after 2000 years, had been glorified? Do u think the Son was glorified with such kind of appointment? I want to hear from you. Because “ wusha bebelabet yichohalina! Gimelus min yahil riket yiguwazal?” Tawk endehon nigeregn. Kezia abrenih hasset enadergalen. Ethiopia bemulu ende Israel altedesetechim ke-Israel temira.Minalbat mesloh yihonal enji, Minalbat ante Diaspora weyim Ethiopian yalkew be simetu kefit wetetew yetekebelut Ethiopian ywekilalu bileh kasebik enji; Bemelketsedek shumet Kegeta wuch lela meshom yichilal bilew yemiyaminutu enji. Antem Ke-ewnet yilik bekutir silemitamin enji. Ethiopia altedesetechim, litidesetim atchilim, Bizu dihoch eyalu Baletegoch seeshomu,lemin atdeset?Kesira yilik sim seetafit ayta lemin atsik! Lelaw sisik antem abreh sak kante temira!Final questions whom do you think you have obeyed?The "Apostle",the organizing board or Jesus?And for whose glory?

Ur brother in Christ
AKK from AAU

Mr Darimu,
May the grace of Jesus be with you.

In reading your comment, one can conclude that you are representing believers in Ethiopia and in Diaspora. But, you know very well that you do not represent me or most of the believers who disagreed with the ordination fiasco. It is your God given right to agree or disagree with brother Paulos and those of us who supported his honorable stand against the "Beale Simet". But, it is not fair to try to represent the whole christian community without their permission. In my opinion, that is misleading. How you can know that your are not representing most of us is by reviewing the positive comments written in response to this article.

What would have been wise was if you had tried to convince us using the Scriptures why you supported the "beale simet". Instead you suggested that because of his questioning of the leaders actions, he is being revangeful (kim beqel). This kind of comment is intended to shut down the discussion around the so called "beale simet".

But, as christians we have responsibilities to correct one another with love. I want you to know that no one is immune from being held accountable no matter what position he holds or how long he serves.

Having said that, I encourage fellow brothers and sisters to continue this worthy discussion in a godly manner.

I pray that you will consider to open up your heart and welcome views that are different from yours.

In His Love.

Brothers, Sisters and Bloggers: There is sin in the house!

The issue goes far beyond our discussion here. The underlying problem is doctrinal. We have to understand where these leaders stand docrinally. Do they believe the Bible to be the final authority? Do they really believe in the coming Kingdom of the Messiah or Kingdom Here and Now doctrine of the late Pastor Pual Paulk and his followers? This is crux of the matter. Had they believed in biblical doctrines, would they dare to wear the CROWN before the CROSS? I am not against an appreciation and affirmation of their service but this one far beyond any measure of sanity.

Liberalism has been seeping into the Ethiopian church since early 1980's when some of opted to go with the liberal flow. In stead of making the final Bible the final authority for preaching and practice, we adopted skillfully crafted schemes and unbiblical self-serving doctrines like those of Paul Pualk. The Diaspora Christians in USA were soon divided along the old Christians and the newer breeds. The newer breeds were led by some "charismatic" revolutionary and flambouyant leaders who soon formed alliance to counter the conservative older but more biblical leaders. The latter sunk silent in "fear" of God and the unknown future. The "chararismatic" leaders mushroomed and quickly took control of the scene. The sin-infested liberal life-style was tolerated and became a power force in the churches and fellowships in the Diaspora. one could hardly hear any message judging sin and sinful life-style of believers and new comers alike. The "Holywood" life-style became the order of the day among the glorified leaders and undiscerning and compromizing members of those gatherings. Pentecostal Prayer was replaced by gossip and calssical music and worship by entertainement paraphenelia, Bible-study by sweet chatters. The holy pulpit became the source of the liberal venom. Gain, glory and vanity fair too surface to the fore. Many serious older Christians fled the mockery to join other more serious local churches where seemingly truth is taught. I believe, that was what our dear brother Paulos is trying to disclose to the Chrisitan community.

We are NOT judging our "fathers" themselves but their sin which devours them and destroys us. It is a disgrace to the the message of the CROSS, the Chruch and the Kingdom of God. We thank them for their endurance and teancity despite the obstacles and challenges they faced in their ministries. May God bless and reward them! Who are we to judge their motives? But now, we see that this act of their is not leading us to revere the awesome Holy God. Their action seem to be diversionary. In stead of drawing us to the Cross, it leads us to them, mere mortal men. I do not know if they realize it. I do not know if they are doing it intentionally either.

What can they do now? I think they should study the book of 2nd Peter thotoughly. It should draw them to their knees to repent and restore. They should realize that the much younger Apostle Paul rebuked Apostle Peter concerning Peter's unfounded doctrine at a time. Peter quickly rebounded from his folly. He accepted the rebuke with graceful humility.

These brothers have healing in their hands but if they must first flee to the Cross pointing their followers to Calvary. They shoud spend some time before the Lord in the solitary quiet, payer, fasting, study, meditation, confession, repentance, etc. Their supporters, friends and church folk should stand with them during these moments of self-searching.

What can we do as Christians? We should keep the "holy fire" burning until the sin of audacious contempt of the Church and the extravagant "fiasco" in a time when our people are facing famine. Like death, sin has no respect of persons. It can sneak into the life of respected "men of God" also. Remember, Jesus had to rebuke Peter's sinfulness as satanic.

Once restored themselves, they should start 'seeking the lost' souls from among their congregations. Many hurting older servants are hiding their heads in the sand lest they be a "stubling block" on their way. I think these ministers should reach out to those wounded and hurting soldiers of the CROSS. During this time of repentance, they should not be burdened with their usual ministry in the church. In fact, the should be in the watchful custody of stronger body of ministers that might help them undergoing the peocess.


All of us should stand with them in prayer for their restoration and healing. We should also pray for our own healing and resrtoration as infected body of Christ.

Our leaders in seminaries and denominational headquarters including the Evangelical Fellowship should take a stand on the controversy of Apostolic Succession and Biblical Authority. Who has the fianl say, the "apostle/s" or the Bible? What is the effect of the liberal or conservative stance in the life of the Christian and the advancement of the gospel in the nation? Have we ever had true repentance?

Finally, I should say this is a turning point for most of us including our "leaders". It could be a semblance of a mountain top experience but can also be turned to deep valley learning experience if we humble ourselves before the Almighty God. We will turn from carnal phoneyness to spiritual authenticity if we abide in Christ.

May the Lord be glorified.

Yours in Unfailing Love,

Fatuma Wakjira
(Heb 6:10)

It is a great lesson for Diasporas who insert their finger in the affair of my country Ethiopia. Great for us, to hear their agonized ''Chuet". They don't have ''efret'' when they introduce unethical and unbiblical manner of ministerial pracices. No difference observed hitherto regarding their secular life style and their sprituality. They always come up with strange Amricanized IDEA. We the dwellers observe them from afar. Definately we were in great fear of them. Touching those diaporas minsters as it were observed, like touching the Coptic tabot. But now our bro Paulos paved a road and exposed their ingenuinety. God Bless him. Above all, this web blessed web blog. Yenanite Hihet Shashitu, Ziway

dear bro betam weredkbnge kasebkuhe betach menalebat yebtchristyanenena yagelgayen gudelet meglet yechristianena sera nw bye alsebem yelakhe manew yegfah ebakhen erashen mermer zemariwem ante zemarewn yetkeskew ferenje cherch eyamelke ethio betchrstian selalew chger bingeren mefthe nw byem alsebem mekneyatum kechgerugare eyenoren selhon kesu yetshale enwekewalen eyandandachen endekalu benenore enji andu lelawen dare komo bikes mefethe aymetam ,kesash demo man endhon taweke yele ahun yhen hager bet bezu gazeta meshcha eres agengethale ewnet felagothe wanwe men yhone ''ante ewnetnga sew bethon esachewn enkwan batgengechew legelachw tesfelachew nber enji were lemanfesena yebtchrstianen newer lemglet yeskezarew yewedajeh Dr derje betewoch yareguten sera matenakeriya newer atsefem nber ewnet bezih Geta yekberale sewes yetanesal azenalhu chershe lemanbeb enkwan aferku antesa legziabher keber yeserahew men yhon eski yalngerkenen enzihen kelaye yetkeskachewn hulu sewoch setnkef enegen kensu yetshalku nge yemil melket selalew eski degmo meshalhen asyen Geta bewnet yerdane . Dear pa Danielnm begele manenm sewoch alewkachewm yegremnge gen yhene yesafkew gen LEGZIABHER keber ena lewegen tekm new weys?????? lehulachen mhert yebzalen lek yalhonut nger linore yechelale gen yhe serah Getan dess yasengale menalbat ante endalkew hawariya layhonu yechlalu gen kebat bengihe sew laye ale benzihen yegziabher sewoch laye endih andebthen letanesa man adfaferh???

Dear Saint Fatuma Wakjira (If you don't mind I'll just refer you as: SFW):

Thank you very much, and God bless you richly for your insightful; and Scriptural analysis above. However, I would just characterize your pleading with our church leaders (probably, I call them lords , if you don't mind) to repent; and expecting them to 'turn-around,' simply as a "wishful thinking!" I would be surprise if 1 out 100 (1%) would even entertain (let alone accept) your "wish."

Please don't take me wrong; I'm not saying that you shouldn't plead with them to 'turn-around'. Not at all! You (and we also) should!

However, as far as I'm concerned, this is how I see it: First of all, I want you to know that I feel your pain. As you have indicated, it is also very discouraging when you see the depth of the PROBLEM (if the LORD opens your eyes, ofcourse!) today's chuch (and its lords) is in. I doubt that the PROBLEM will be solved let alone by one but many generations to come. As a matter of fact, I believe that it will “END!” before it is solved. I say this because ‘THE DAY OF THE LORD’ is flying to us with 1000 miles/hour (please sing Dr. Dereje’s song #3 ‘Gizew’ in the background of your brain).

Now the question that comes to mind would be what shall be done? What shall we, who say that the WORD OF GOD is compromised in the church, do? Do we keep our mouth shut? Do we just lament and pray? Well, the simple answer I give you is that ‘We declare THE TRUE WORD OF GOd’ by whatever means we can. Whether it is one-to-one, in a group or in a Bible study or work place or in a forum like this or…I’ll explain further by taking you back to probably 2600 years ago: The day of Prophet Jeremiah (I will just refer him as Ermias).

When you study the Book of Ermias, you can easily see so much parallelism between his time and today. Simply replace the name Ermias (or put yourself on the shoes of Ermias) with your name, or brother dereje’s name, or simply ‘believer’ you will see what I am referring to. Additionally, simply replace the words ‘temple’ with ‘church’ are you will be able to recognize that Ermias is just speaking about our day. One of the similarities is that Jerusalem was facing a great danger infront of her. The people were about to be taken into captivity to a foreign land. This is basically what Ermias was trying to communicate to the people and the priests of his day. Did they listen? No! Did he stop telling them that danger is at the door? No! As much as they don’t want to listen (and don’t want Ermias telling them) did the danger pass? No! It happened just excatly as Ermias prophecied. I hope you see now why I said there is so much parallism and similarities between then and now.

To be frank with you, just like the time of Ermias I don’t expect most of the churches will listen and then repent. As a matter of fact, I suspect in their arrogance they will increase their ‘high-places’ (or idols), and diverting themselves from the Word of God. It is indeed discouraging. But just like Ermias, we should be determined to declare the TRUTH, whether they listen or not. We are doing this simply for two reasons (you see this sprinkled here and there in the Book of Ermias). We tell the truth (a) for repentance, for those who want and do listen; and when you flip the coin, we tell the truth (b) to ring a ‘BELL!’.

Inorder to save time and not to spend so much energy, I will just cut and paste to illustrate passages:

(I)-(Repentance):

“Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say: ‘ Return, backsliding Israel,’ says the LORD; ‘ I will not cause My anger to fall on you. For I am merciful,’ says the LORD; ‘ I will not remain angry forever. That you have transgressed against the LORD your God, And have scattered your charms To alien deities under every green tree, And you have not obeyed My voice,’ says the LORD.

“Return, O backsliding children,” says the LORD; “for I am married to you. I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion. And I will give you shepherds according to My heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding….” (Jeremiah 3:12+)

In addition (jeremiah 4:1-4),
“If you will return, O Israel,” says the LORD, “Return to Me; And if you will put away your abominations out of My sight, Then you shall not be moved.
And you shall swear, ‘The LORD lives,’
In truth, in judgment, and in righteousness; The nations shall bless themselves in Him, And in Him they shall glory.”

For thus says the LORD to the men of Judah and Jerusalem: “ Break up your fallow ground, And do not sow among thorns. Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, And take away the foreskins of your hearts, You men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem,
Lest My fury come forth like fire,
And burn so that no one can quench it,
Because of the evil of your doings.”

Lastly, one more (7:1-11)
The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying, “Stand in the gate of the LORD’s house, and proclaim there this word, and say, ‘Hear the word of the LORD, all you of Judah who enter in at these gates to worship the LORD!’” Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: “Amend your ways and your doings, and I will cause you to dwell in this place. Do not trust in these lying words, saying, ‘The temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD are these.’

“For if you thoroughly amend your ways and your doings, if you thoroughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbor, if you do not oppress the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and do not shed innocent blood in this place, or walk after other gods to your hurt, then I will cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers forever and ever.

“Behold, you trust in lying words that cannot profit. Will you steal, murder, commit adultery, swear falsely, burn incense to Baal, and walk after other gods whom you do not know, and then come and stand before Me in this house which is called by My name, and say, ‘We are delivered to do all these abominations’? Has this house, which is called by My name, become a den of thieves in your eyes? Behold, I, even I, have seen it,” says the LORD.

(II)-(And, The ‘BELL!’)

“So you shall say to them, ‘This is a nation that does not obey the voice of the LORD their God nor receive correction. Truth has perished and has been cut off from their mouth. Cut off your hair and cast it away, and take up a lamentation on the desolate heights; for the LORD has rejected and forsaken the generation of His wrath.’ For the children of Judah have done evil in My sight,” says the LORD. “They have set their abominations in the house which is called by My name, to pollute it. And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, nor did it come into My heart.

“Therefore behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD, “when it will no more be called Tophet, or the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter; for they will bury in Tophet until there is no room. The corpses of this people will be food for the birds of the heaven and for the beasts of the earth. And no one will frighten them away. Then I will cause to cease from the cities of Judah and from the streets of Jerusalem the voice of mirth and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride. For the land shall be desolate. (jeremiah 7:28-34)

Additionally, (13:15-18)
Hear and give ear: Do not be proud,For the LORD has spoken. Give glory to the LORD your God Before He causes darkness,
And before your feet stumble On the dark mountains, And while you are looking for light, He turns it into the shadow of death And makes it dense darkness. But if you will not hear it,
My soul will weep in secret for your pride; My eyes will weep bitterly
And run down with tears, Because the LORD’s flock has been taken captive.

(The following is a very very scary WORD)
Then the LORD said to me, “Even if Moses and Samuel stood before Me, My mind would not be favorable toward this people. Cast them out of My sight, and let them go forth. And it shall be, if they say to you, ‘Where should we go?’ then you shall tell them, ‘Thus says the LORD:

“ Such as are for death, to death;
And such as are for the sword, to the sword; And such as are for the famine, to the famine; And such as are for the captivity, to the captivity.”’

“And I will appoint over them four forms of destruction,” says the LORD: “the sword to slay,…(Jeremiah 15:1+)

SFW, Brothers and Sisters!
Was Ermias happy to declare these Words? Absolutely not! (For example, he said ‘My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war…4:19…When I would comfort myself against sorrow, my heart is faint in me…8:18) But he can’t help it! Actually that is why he is referred as ‘The Lamenting Prophet’. He was struggling with the people, he was struggling with the priests, he was even struggling with God, and he was struggling with himself. I believe, that is basically what a believer at this time feeling, if you know what I mean.

Finally, just like Ermias we can not STOP declaring the TRUTH. Because Ermias couldn’t! He is doing this,
(a) “Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts” (15:16); and (b) “Then I said, I will not make mention of him, nor speak any more in his name. But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay.” (20:9)

SFW, Brothers and Sisters!
Therefore, I believe that, just like Ermias is our task is simply declare The TRUTH; i.e., The Word of God.

Many blessings to all of you!

BLESS U! BLESS U! BLESS U! BLESS U! BLESS U! BLESS U! BLESS U! BLESS U! BLESS U!,
I am sure they are going to read all comments too.
Personally I do not have a problem some one has a loot of name. What make me fill sad those Paster give talk at ordination, there warning, if you are not accept this you will be ....... I am not understand about there thinking. why they are not perch the Gospel of Jesus to this world and if you are not accept Jesus us your personal saver, you will be portion.
Are they forget those odance the precise son and doughter of GOD??????

Dear Darimu, I strongly support your idea and want to encourage you never to give up simply the mob is against you. Why would people cry about a very simple thing that happened in Addis? What is wrong with you all brothers? Why do you want to die as those men who opposed the authority of Moses? I read the article and see Paulos is full of hatred and negative mentality. He is critically short of Bego Hilina. We are praying with few people that both Paulos and his followers be healed. Paulos and his supporters need to repent, NOW before anything bad happens to them!!! Don't place your evil hands on the annointed ones. You have no histroy, no impact, no nothing...bunch of foolish attitude and opinions. Darimu has put it in a good way: the dogs bark and the camels don't stop from going forth. My sincere advice for those of you is: Don't get angry and jelous about one single event. Instead, pray, wait and see what will be happening. Tomorrow, you will all be ashamed.
My words to Darimu is: don't get discouraged simply because the mob is shouting. Don't be afraid of them at all. Instead, give them a lesson as much as you can. May be some of them may repent and come back to the reality.

My dear Brother Amare,

You have done no offense by shortening my name for your conveninece. In fact let me use it too. All for His glory! After all it is a pen name.

I commend you for your comment above. You rightly highlighted Prophet Jermaiah who could not sleep with his message. Most of the prophets were like him. They stood ALONE for God. So were the apostles in the New Testament. They were not politicians seeking the approval and vote of their people. They were single-minded, unweavering individuals, taking risks being ready to live life fully or die with with dignity for God (Heb 11). They are our examples to follow today. Paul, certainly is glittering among them who said, "To me,to die is gain"; not fame or 'funds'!

Our brothers with whom we plead to repent or reposition themselves may not be willing to do either as you said. Yes, the damage has been done. Our gospel has been watered down to suit their style. They have erred and they may not want to admit it. What can we do? Well, what does the Bible say about erring brothers? Our Lord taught us to tell the truth (Please read the whole chapter of Mt. 18). One may say, "what did they do; whom did they offend?". Think of those who had told them when they erred. Where are those brothers and sisters? They have been abused, bruised, wounded, ostracized, ex-communicated, etc. Just go to the churches these brothers are pstoring. They have been muzzled or castrated. They are rendered UNIVERSALLY unuseable among the Ethiopian Evangelical churhces with whom the pastor is associated. The Pastors Association is feared more than God by many simply because of its power to ostracize or disqualify any Ethiopian church/fellowhip member on the face of the earth. Now, apostleship affords them more power and spiritual legitimacy in this regard. I know no one wants to talk about this because they will be immediately isolated, named, marked and attacked. I do not know what they will do to me but I trust God, my Redeemer. I do not want to be a Martin Luther because I am so small and undeserving. The type of persecution borne during the Dergue's or Haile Sellassie's Ethiopia with all its attrocities is much lighter than what these pastors are subjecting their challenging believers to. Even the traveling Ethiopian conference speakers who frequently speak in their churches are so afraid of them that they would lose their friendship and favor with the pastors. A dear Ethiopian wounded pastor friend of mine lovingly warned me not to criticize them whether publicly or privately because he said, "yatefuhal". Well, I am not dead yet. I will live as long as my Lord wants. So I will speak the truth in LOVE till I die. LOVE is our birth mark on our forehead. We love our brothers. We cannot afford to lose them. That is why cannot allow Satan to consume them in vain glory and passing glamor. We will repent with them for our negligence and withdrawal. We are equally guilty of covering them up when they needed to be exposed for their own good. We have been too complacent and diplomatic with them. There is no diplomacy in the God's Kingdom; yes is yes and no is no. No grey area. No guess work! All is absolute with God. We will swallow our pride and wear Christ's humility. Amen!

I admire our brother Paulos. It is unloving and unChristian, in fact SIN, not to do right when we know it is so, according to Apostle James. As to the strong seeming unloving language or unflattering pronouncements, he will be corrected, I suppose. But, what he said is essentially true and we should commend him for it.

Liberalism is a very dangerous and slippery road. It is like yeast in a bad sense. We need to be biblically correct, not any other way. The Bible should be our only guide by the power of the Holy Spirit; not the "Pente Pope" or the "Apostle-to-be" although we love and respect him. He or she is mortal and erring flesh. We will soon stand before the Judge soon. Sola Scriptura!!!

May the Lord have mercy on us. May He bless you today and every day of your life whereever you may be.

With lots of prayers,

SFW

I like your argument, your analysis and your boldness too. However, it would have been better if you could say all that you said with love.
yes Ethiopian church cannot be ruled by an exiled pastors who got their permit mostly by falsely written assylums nor should our country ruled by fled doctors. The question is how do we present that. OMG, I am not saying it in love either

I think we should imitate biblical characters such as Paul, Peter, James and the Lord Himself. The camel and the dog do not have much to teach us spiritually. Pride, apathy, indifference, disregard and neglect should not be our response even to a child or yenebite. Love, care and compassion are Christ-like virtues we need to exhibit. I do not see the analogy here. Do you mean you would not care if the little brother cries, etc. I think that is not the model Jesus taught. Are we not to seek the lost and care for the dying? Remeber the parable of the 99 and one lost sheep in the gospels.

Our attitude and action should be based on the questions: What did Jesus do? and What would He do?

As I said earlier the issue is doctrinal not just personal. There is no jealousy here. I doubt if Dr. Dereje is jealous of any one these brothers. Yes, these brothers are achieved individuals but their legacy will haunt us and them if it is not corrected now. Please, consider the arguments here as sincere and not of ill-motive.

God bless you, my brother.

Dear Gedamu,

Grace and peace to you.

I have read your comment with great sadness. You called those who are opposed to the extravagant "fiasco" people with "no history", "no impact" and "bunch of foolish." But I know one thing that it is only the Holy Son of God, Jesus Christ, who made everlasting impact and history by His death on the cross. Any one who claims this kind of ministry would undoubtedly undermine the great sacrifice and deity of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Yes, God can use us to impact others but it is all His power and only for His glory.

Blessed be the name of Our Lord.

In His Love

I am so impressed and would one more time thank our brother Saint Fatuma Wakjira for his thorough and in depth assessment of the status quo r/t the theological aspects surrounding the apostleship. Dear brother, you remark made things clearly and come up with a solution at the same time.Since this is an ongoing discussion, I would like to request you come over as you could and continue to enrich the discussion when necessary. I only regret that our community still lags behind in terms of communications. Even a discussion of this sort is worthy of being engaged in by hundreds and thousands if not millions! After all, this is one among many core issues to be discussed and come up with a viable solution for the advancement of the Everlasting Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. To that end, I would like to thank our Lord and Savior for providing us with this kind of forum where concerned brethren would vent out what they feel and equipped brethren would teach us incredible things such as highlighted by Saint Fatuma Wakjira. Thank you Ethiocross Editorials by the way and God bless you.

So, to ensure the continuity of such a forum, we need to create awareness to our friends, especially those of us in diaspora b's we got easy access to the internet and sadly not use it.

My response to Gedamu is: you need to come up with concrete examples and Scriptural truth. I don't resent b's you have a different idea than mine. That is Okay as far as we have unity on the BASICS. I sincerely believe that you love our Lord Jesus Christ. Please don't judge those whose stand and opinion is against yours. Besides, please don't try to threaten people by saying you are going to die or God will smite you b's of their convictions. That is not biblical and I don't believe your biblical reference is sound either.

May God bless you all.

Brother Mersha (I know your great name could also be for a sister),

I forgot to thank you for your encouragement. You prompted me to write more on this subject.

It is unfortunate that we do not know each other closely so we could appreciate one another. We all have mighty stories to tell, from salvation, miracles and wonders, God's provision and faithfulnes to His unfailing preservation, and other praiseworthy experiences if we are indeed saved believers. So, we cannot undermine anyone or anyone's thoughts or message. Meshekakem! God is here in this discussion as we are gathered in His name by way of this medium. We cannot take any comment lightly as learn from one another.Bbefore I start typing my comments, I always pray that the Holy Spirit would use my abilities and faculties for the benefit someone and for the glory of His Name. That I have been ministered by your encouragement is the work of the Holy Spirit. I never want to take anything for granted, as the Bible says, "give thanks in everything for this is the will of the Father concerning...". And, we are commanded to do everything in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The time I am spending on the computer is His time. There is nothing I own since I have been redeemed by the blood of Jesus. So, this is not a waza-fezaza pass-time leisure hobby. This is LIFE. This is about my LORD and His Gospel! I thank God for everyone here and specially the ones who facilitated this forum. We should therefore continue the discussion until we exhaust the subject. May be the Holy Spirit can use it to kindle an authentic revival in our hears, homes and nation as we humbly receive exhortations from one another.

May God bless you all.

Under His wings,
SFW

Dear Brethren,

May the grace of our Lord Jesus be with all of us!

It is very encouraging to see many of you walk in the truth. As Apostle John says, "It gives me great joy to have some brothers come and tell about your faithfulness to the truth and how you continue to walk in the truth. I have no greater joy than to hear that my children are walking in the truth." (3John 3-4). I am very thankful for bothers like saint fatima wakjira, mersha and the many who spoke the truth in love. I would also like to thank the ethiocross editorial for proving the platform for this kind of discussion. At last, but not least I would like to thank those of you who hold opposite views from most of us for expressing what you think is right. Let us therefore continue to encourage and challenge each other with the truth and love of our Lord Jesus Christ.

In His Love

Please all of you keepquite!!! You have spoken till your mouth is widen or wrote till your fingers are broken. But You are not edifying the body of Christ. If some one is mistaken according to matt 18 the Discipline procedures are
1.Personal correction
2.Belivers corriction
3.Church correction
But all of you Jamped to the third one and you started to hammer those brothers. Even though they have made mistakes they are your, mine brothers. Why do we? throw them like a dung?Please let us not expose our wickness to the davil and the world. Above all there are many who hates us, who do not want our existance on this earth. So Enough is enough. In JESUS NAME!!!!Dont write or expose the body of Christ.Because Jesus Loves her and He died for here. I don't mean that we must not correct our brothers but let us correct them in God's house not Electonically or using some sloughting methods.
May God Give Us understanding and Jesus is comming soon and His wadge is in His Hands including those war makers like Ethiocross.com.

Iyosiyas Wow Great remark you forwarded! God Bless You! This is the era of Intelectuality. We should scape and fly from indistinct Christianity. Even the pioneers' saints (1 6th century saints) had this sort of mentality. ...I appeciate also holder of this blessed web page. Their prize is enormous!
Endale Besher, Zekasanchis!

Hi Paul
I like very much your observation and critics with some reservation on your harshness. The critics you made is based on your assumption that Apostles does not exist today, which I also shear with you. If I got an opportunity I will post the Theological argument of it. Let me hear from you.

Dear Brothers & Sisters in Christ!

My challenge to each and every blogger is: Can you sincerly believe and say, "For we [I] are [is] not, as so many,peddling the word of God; but as of sincerity, but as from God, we speak in the sight of God in Christ." [As The Apostle Paul boldly declared to The Corinthians (II Corth.2:17)]

And,

The following challenge is for our church leaders: Can you sincerly believe and confidently (in The Face of God, who sees your heat & everything in it!) say: "Do we [I] begin again to commend ourselves? Or do we [I] need, as some others, epistles of commendation to you or letters of commendation from you?" [II Corth.3:1]

Finally, I would like to once again say 'God bless you richly!' to my Brother Paulos, who's boldly [and Scripturaly] fighting The Good Fight!

Dear Brothers and sisters,

This is a response to some people who thinks exposing error is some how wrong. But the Bible clearly teaches how to confront error or false doctrine and personal offence. For example if your brother sins against you, it is imperative to go to him and resolve the issue. If he does not listen to you, then take one or two others along, so that every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them , tell it to the church (Matt. 18:15-17). This instraction is given to any one who is offended by his brother. But, those brothers and sisters did not sin against me or any brother in person so to speak. What they have done was scripturaly wrong (doctrinal issues).

However, what happened during the "beale Simet" was not done in private. In fact they did it in public and needs to be addressed in public. Apostle Paul rebuked Apostle Peter in front of others. He said, "When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong... When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of of them all..." (Gal. 1:11-14).

One more thing, as the people of the Spirit we need to exhibit self control and refrain from any "unwholesome talk come out of our mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen." (Gal. 4:29). So let us respect each other and talk our differences with Love.

In His Love,

Here are two articles on Apostolic ministry I came across in
http://www.ethiopianchurch.org/

The title given to our brother pastor Daniel doesn’t harm any body but our current argument does.
Jesus said: you are my brothers. Who is going to oppose that?? Is this not the greatest thing for humanity?
The title endorsed on beale simet, agrees with all missions and privilege of servants by any theological standard.
There are some apostles from Ethiopia from whom we shared ministry. It was sound theology. I did not see any opposition. If the procession is so expensive in that poverty stricken country is the issue the elders and leaders of the church should sort out something in accordance with their budget and charitable work. I agree with that, but I approve what they accomplished.
Yes Ethiopia is crying and sad poor and with all problems because as abesha we do not listen to leaders, prophets. Our parents disobeyed all kings from the time of Tewodros until this moment. I have to say even some of the message posted testifies that. Unfortunately the disobedience and theological squabble is creeping in to the 21st century Ethiopian churches.
On the other hand the majority of protestant Ethiopians at home and in the Diaspora have rejoiced. This great opportunity of evangelism was witnessed by respected guests and audiences. Board members and church leaders decide in their given time and followers must accept that, they did that. This is exactly what is unfolding in the protestant church Ethiopia. The recent procession is historic progress. Today’s servants are followers of Jesus our lord and also Peter and Paul.
If servants who ministered do not come to the foot step of original apostles who is going to fill this historic gap? I humbly encourage you to have a space for our preachers, singers, Rev, Drs, Pastors called to serve the nations especially since the last 30-40 years.
The remedy for the poverty is simple learn from the past in all directions and start to contribute to evangelism, Support front line workers in that country in the endeavour of holistic ministry.
In love

Dear Saints because of some ones fault it is very sad to say the bible is not correct by saying that today there are no apostles. Let me explain in Short .An Apostle means a sent one. so who are those?:-
1.Jesus:- for He is the anther and finisher of our faith according to the Book of Heb He is the First apostle
2.The apostle of the lamb :-who are 12
3.Paul:- apostle to the Gentiles
4.Church apostles like Timothy, Titus etc. So because Jesus was uplifted to fill all( His Body-the Church) by Giving ministers According to Eph4:1-14 He gave us some (not all) apostles, some( Not all )Prophets, Some( Not all) Evangelists and some( not all )to be teachers and pastors.If we accept Pastors, Evangelists and Teachers but negligence Apostles and prophets then we are believing not the whole bible but at lease 60% of it which is by it self Hearsay. But what is important to ask is as our brother said It is not PROMOTION OF MINISTER TO MOVE FROM ONE OFFICE TO THE OTHER. I don't know whether Jesus Himself said to Pas. Daniel ,in the beginning, He is an apostle but because of the level of understanding of saints may be He kept quite-Who knows before we Jude it is good to ask him.
Otherwise because of the fault of other preachers who were there it is impossible to deny the bible and all the offices. Plus if you see it in the book of acts God did not gave all the ministries in one day.Eg. 1St were the 12Apostles then in Acts Chapter 8 after 8 years come the evangelist then on Acts 13 Comes the Prophets and Teachers and in Acts 23 Finally comes the Pastors. This is what God did in that time why? it is his own will. There are some questions which are good to ask God but there are some questions where you cant get the answer. If God did the same thing what is wrong except the jinks in the sermon. Please understand me I am not age nest the ministry called APOSTLE but I am age nest the the sermon y they made. Paul As you have said are you sure that you personally will accept the young Apostles like Timothy? be sure because they are genuinely coming. God is raising young ,mature, full of the word and Spirit ministers.So be according to your Words..Saints don't be illusion-ed because some one made a mistake It is wrong to say that ministry is mistake it is rather the man who is mistaken .for eg. there are presidents of this world who are very rude and dictators but you never haired that any body say We don't need a president rather every body say I want a nice ,capable president. so the Church is more than the world in every aspect so let us believe the Word of God and burn in the Spirit of God in all our days for his glory. Don't be dis appointed because some one said out of the word .He will get his wadge from the Lord. But let us build our brothers in Christian way not worldly way. If you start to measure one's spiritual life/ministry God will put you in his scale and you will be light like feather.

I am shocked for your direct finger pointing and name calling article,the worst part of your Article 'Yenetsanet Mezez' will point how we treat our for fathers without respect and Love.
We have to thank God when we see our brothers for all these years serving their master, All our front Elders have their weeakness Like me and you, when we tear a part we will lose, Please use your pen to build,to correct the body of Christ, I have Great respect for the Anointing in their life, I am sure Brothe Dereje, will not share the same stage to trash the body of Christ,
Dear brother Pualos raise the apostilic Issue for discussion, I am happy to learn.

Thank you so much brother Darimu and Anteneh for your courage and determination to teach the mislead; to give guidance and shade some lights from The Scripture. I believe this is important especially in this difficult time when so many went astray from the true biblical teaching. Now that the truth is explained, I think they will get their lessons and KEEP QUIET.

Why I think church politics MUST STOP....

I couldn’t resist the urge that pushed me for long even if I realize I would end up saying things that –should I say –are not considered to be my personal business. I also note that by saying this I am adding one line to the already over written book of our shameful dispute that is being exposed to the world because of our carelessness towards the image of Christianity. The gossips and disputes which eventually have grown to name calling and personal attacks started few years back from nowhere and now they have become a threat to our future existence as a Christian nation. The problem is everybody wants to talk (talk the weakness of his brother and his own strength).It seems that the days of innocence has passed leaving turns to the days of blame and self-centeredness.

However ,After being puzzled by the unexpected outbursts in the continues church disputes I hear and see respected spiritual leaders entertain and it causes great pain to see people who once were considered to be brothers till death calling names and are engaged in virtual wars through public media like magazines and now the internet.
The push that is stirring many spiritual existence may have been originated from every possible intention……..the search for identity, personal reasons, internal crisis etc…….for what I see whatever added to the list the conclusion is these people are sick and need spiritual help. They must …….stop being engaged in childish political talks in the church of Christ.

I was surprisingly inspired by the Animal farm story by George Orwell to see the link between the present internal turmoil in the Ethiopian evangelical churches and the pictures Orwell has painted and I am convinced the 1943 story can relate to the present situation well

1. The pigs—these are the present church leaders who sell their past status to earn respect And wealth for their today’s life.

2. The little pigs ----who does a lot of talking against the pigs but are completely Absent in deeds they talk and talk because they want to get attention they have No spiritual intention and they have never kneeled and prayed for the pigs they Condemn.

3. The sheep----these are the innocent animals who contribute nothing to the problem, But are troubled by the cyber and other media attacks between the two parties. For that matter both the pigs and the blamers (the little pigs) are of the same type …they lack love.

What we have forgotten is…… We must all run our ways silently and see each other in the sight of Christ’s love…..blaming others will never contribute for our achievement before God on the Day of Judgment. If there is anything we could achieve is Attention and applause from others at the expense of the ruined image of Christianity.

Christianity is a world of public silence and kneeling before God…it is not a place for politics and power. STOP BLAMING EACHOTHER AND START PARAING!!!!!!!!! There you will find your peace.

``The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself. ``
Franklin D. Roosevelt (1882 - 1945)
U.S. president.

LOVE WINS ALL

Dear Darimu and his advisor Gedamu

I have read your arguments based on the issue posted. I would like to thank you for your prayer to others whom you think are “mistaken”. Gedamu has to know whom he is advising. Someone has to say “be courageous” if the person is on the right track but finds difficulty and challenges. Unless and otherwise it is meaningless to say “berta” to the one who is on the wrong side or action. I am sorry to say that both of you have no theological argument to defend your position. You just only say, we are delighted, rejoiced and others are also rejoiced, and so on to support your idea. I do not have problem with your happiness, but with your reasons. Kids may be happy playing with their excreted matter; even they may invite their elders to play together with them.
To begin with,Gedamu said, “it is a very simple thing” which has occurred in Addis Ababa. How simple is it and based on what measurement? You also asked your readers saying what is the wrong with you? Nothing brother! But what is the right thing with the “beale simet”? Is that Biblical to appoint a pastor to be an apostle? Where does such culture come from to appoint an apostle to a church?

Gedamu also warns people that they may die like those who opposed the authority of Moses. Do you see what kind of spirit you shared from the “beale Simet”? You could even trace the name of the person who was warning like you did, from the writing. Do you think the authority the pastor received was from God? First and for most it is not biblical to despise any authority given from God. Jesus` apostles and also Moses received their authority directly from God (Jesus).They did not organize themselves to be appointed or even considered themselves worthy of the calling. Remember at least how Moses and Apostle Peter were called.

Gedamu also blamed the writer of “…hatred and negative mentality, short of bego hilina” and also others having “no history”, “no impact”, “no nothing”, “…bunch of foolish attitude and opinion”. And also tries to divide people who are Paul`s follower and others. Gedamu has to see whether these words come out from a person having “Bego hilina” to the writer and others supporting to his opinion. He also blames people of being angry and jealousy for their corrective argument for the Pastor. If someone is going to fall into a ditch (pit) and his brother tells him lest that he may fall, does this mean to be angry and jealous? The last apostle (Apostle Paul) who have seen Jesus bodily after resurrection opposed the action of a known pillar Apostle Peter who was from the beginning of Jesus ministry to the end. Was this from Jealousy or according to love and for the propagation of the gospel? Authority is not to cover mistakes or not to avoid opposition from persons.

The Bible tells us not to place any evil hand on any person; not only to “the anointed ones” as to Gedamu`s explanation. Though I do not understand your view of “the anointed ones” whom they are! In the Old Testament, only few peoples were anointed, for example priests, kings and prophets, etc. In the New Testament, as long as they are truly born again Christians, all are filled with Holy Spirit, and are anointed. Read the first epistle of John. But there is someone special, “the Anointed One-Jesus Christ”. He is the Only One to be called the “Anointed One”. We do not need any other classes as what the Jehovah Witnesses do. “The anointed ones “ and “the Sheep” which we see the Great divide in them. “The anointed ones are the so called spirit filled, born again and inherit God`s kingdom in heaven.These are those who work in the leadership especially in Brooklyn. The rests are not spirit filled and born again and will not inherit the heaven, but the earth. They have to listen and obey every instruction from “the anointed ones” even if they teach unbiblical teachings. Thanks be to Jesus we do not have such teaching and we do not need such ones to govern us and even we do not need to appoint people with such desires, who are saying let me do this and the other things to you and also say you do not do anything without us making themselves the Way to Jesus and the Father setting themselves in the middle between God and the Congregation. That way was opposed by our church leaders like Martin Luther and other enlighted persons. Today`s so called apostles want to fool us after so many years camouflaging under “revivals and faith movements and so called anointing”. History taught us and we do not need to go back to our past mistakes what the Catholic Church did. Everything to be done under their leadership, rather than the scriptures.

Gedamu also thinks that tomorrow will be the shame for those who opposed the “Beale simet”. It seems you know good will come tomorrow after the appointment. Let it come! But If good comes, does it mean the appointment was right? God is not utilitarian who delights on the result of an action which will contribute to happiness or pleasure to people. He is a God of principle. He does not say “yetim fichiw,duketun gin amchiw’. As to this idea, it is good to see the example of Moses. God ordered him to speak to the Rock, not to strike. But Moses did the opposite, the water came out and the people got satisfied. But God did not approve Moses, because the people were satisfied and the water came out. Rather He said you won`t inherit the land which I promised. Had He been “wutet tekor” He would clap and also tell Moses to inherit the land. This is similar to Darimu `s argument like “The title given to our brother pastor Daniel doesn’t harm anybody but our current argument does.” i.e to say based on harm or benefit, but not on the principle. If it does not harm, does it have any use except the gratification of the person who was given? Does it have any use for the glory of Jesus and also for the building up of the church? Anything that does not harm does not mean it has any use.

Darimu also said, “The title endorsed on beale simet, agrees with all missions and privilege of servants by any theological standard.” Here you did not give any biblical argument to support your idea, you just only said so. And also said that you had some apostles from Ethiopia from whom you shared their ministry. It was sound theology. I did not see any opposition”. I do not know who they are. Do they call themselves apostles or Jesus selected them?
“… as abesha we do not listen to leaders, prophets.” Our parents disobeyed all kings from the time of Tewodros until this moment…I do not understand what you wanted to mean. Are you mentioning this because you said it is historical procession? Israel did the same to her leaders and prophets were the Israelites Habesha too?

You now and then say “…the majority… have rejoiced”. It seems you believe in number than truth. You repeat such words for your argument. First of all you do not have any data to say majority of the Ethiopian… and the Diaspora…rejoiced. You should not rely on numbers always. Because we know from the Bible many experiences which tells us not to do so. Elijah was alone while there were a number of prophets after Baal. There were 400 prophets who say you will be successful and go on, but only one Prophet who says, I will speak what God tells me to speak.2 out 12 spies were with a great faith to enter the land. All the Israelites were against the two together with the other spies.
You said, “The recent procession is historic progress. Today’s servants are followers of Jesus our lord and also Peter and Paul. If servants who ministered do not come to the foot step of original apostles who is going to fill this historic gap? I humbly encourage you to have a space for our preachers, singers, Rev, Drs, Pastors called to serve the nations especially since the last 30-40 years.” Who told you so that we need such kind of succession? First from Peter to whom…and from whom does the pastor received the appointment to fill the gap. From what this I could understand is you have historical knowledge gap who is setting history of Christianity in Ethiopia to 30-40 years which is presupposed to the time of service of the Pastor.

There is no gap formed on the succession as long as there is no apostolic succession . The gap is taught to occur in those groups who do not believe in the Sole Word of God and those who need apostles for themselves. Brother what I have learned from you is only zeal, zeal without knowledge, emotions without any base, friendship greater than truth. Number greater than biblical truth. But what I advise you is this, study the word of God deeply, do not set any one more than the Word of God, anyone who goes against the Word of God,if he does- reject, accept those who speak the true word of God and follow their examples which are similar the truth. Brothers, finally I leave this quotation to you “Seek the truth-Listen to the truth-teach the truth-love the truth-abide by the truth-and defend the truth-Unto death –John Huss

Your brother in Christ
AKK-AUU

all of us let us be quiet and listen( read ) the word of God and The Spirit of God. Fot Talk is cheap .In Jesus name Amen!!!!!

I just read all the comments which addresse Pouelos Fekades article which is focesed on the day of ordination of Pastor Daniel's. As me all comments can give direction 'where the Ethiopian churchs are '.In case of this I am planning to study people's comments,the reason is to find our basic problems and also to find the best solution .
Any way Pawulos article is too sounded,it is good to encourage him to write the best in his remaing life time.To be more frutefulI am praying to him always.
Sime T
zicsime@yhoo,com

Dear AKK-AAU,

Thank you for your courageous words of exhortation. I could not say it better. Yes, we ought to “Seek the truth-Listen to the truth-teach the truth-love the truth-abide by the truth-and defend the truth-Unto death". May we be faithful to the Word of the Living God.

In His Love.

Good job Paulos. But I wish Paulos focused on the events of the night and tell us his views, or do more research on the other things he raised. A case in point can be that some of the speakers might have left the country unwillingly and they are doing great ministries for Diaspora - so I would say it is unfair on them to accuse them of deserting this country during the the exile years. I have also reservation if the current youth generation can replace them, as Paulos (implicitly) claimed. No doubt that there are many in the youth community in this generation who are true servants of Lord, but do they have the spiritual strength to "replace" the earlier generation? Well if there is such a thing as "replacement". I am also with the view that it is the Word of God who can prepare the youth for spiritual growth Paulos said not the earlier generation (Enie Tekeliku, Aplos Ateta, Egziabher Asadege) . Who helped the earlier generation to do the magnificient job of spreading the gospel in the 60's and 70's - Was it not the Holy Spirit alone. On a third point Paulos can be right that these diaspora evangelist church leaders pick only the ministers they like. How about here Paulos? Otherwise Paulos has done the great task of telling these fathers to do things within the "limit" not in a way it covers our Lord (although I am sure they didn't do it deliberately). It is also important to encourage rare writers like Paulos as they can contribute a lot to correct things in the House. Keep up with the good job Paulos, but make sure that you are always backed by long time before God in prayers - your ministry is sensitive as it reaches all kinds of people!!!

I believe most of us who read and critically analized the ordination ceremony in light of the scriptures and Paulos's report have concluded that the brothers have have committed a grave error that has mislead the Ethiopian Evangelical christendom. These brothers will have to humble themselves and recant their misdeeds, repent and search their heart. As I have said earlier, they should bring us all to repentance again. May the Holy Spirit work in the them as well as in us for our restoration! We should also go back to our brothers like Dr. Dereje and scores of others who have deserted the their fellowships/churches having been wounded by the attitudes and actions of these and other brothers and sisters. I hope this is the problem of the Diaspora only! The younger generation may not know what I ma talking about here but many of the ministers would recall incidents and particular situations which might have inflicted pain and suffering among the saints. I believe true repentance will restore healing in their life and land. Sins of pride, seeking gain, fame and glory might have seeped into our midst unnoticed. Our brothers are not immune from such sins. We are not judging them for,who are we to do so? We also need to examine our own hearts, our motives and our actions. We judge ourserlves as sinners saved by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. May the Lord have His mercy on us all. May the Holy Spirit bring a fresh revival into our land. may God canvass us with His lovingkindness. May our prayer life and sweet brotherly/sisterly fellowship be ever restored again and again. Let us meet Jesus at the foot of His Cross before we write anything against any one. "What would Jesus do?" should be our motto.

As for the ordination of bishops like in Tanzania, etc., I think this depends on the denominations. Each denomination can have its own church polity or government. We may not have one-size-fits-all kind of church government. Some follow strict biblical model; others enjoy their traditional model, although both claim they are scripturally sound. Whether Presbyterian, Episcopal or congregational, the local body of believers may have to choose as to which style would suit their situation and the church's personality. I believe the Bible gives us liberty in this one as Paul applied cultural relativity when he presented the gospel to Jews and the Gentiles alike, being Roman to Romans, Jew to the Jewish, etc. This is where you may apply 'Yetim fichiw, duqiettun amchiw'. I do not just want to sprinkle verses here and there in this short comment just to win my readers attention. One has to study the Bible seriously concerning this matter and any matter concerning the CHURCH particularly. Essentially, the Ethiopian Evangelical church is not composed of one denomination and may not have one Archbishop or several bishops. Probably the Diaspora church, being a fellowship of all kinds of believers may choose to have a bishop. But, I doubt if that could happen either because the congregation is too diverse and introducing such a polity may be render divisive and unproductive. Our people seem to be satisfied with the Presbyterian or congregational style of church administration.


With this I conclude my writing. I am very grateful to all of you who admonished me to continue writing. i do not want to name any lest I leave outt any one. Please, forgive me if I have said anything that has hurt you or should not have said. Whatever, I have been trying to do was for the purity of the Church, the 'Bride' and the furtherance of the gospel which is the 'heartbeat' of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Please, critique me for I have had too much of it and I am now numbed to it or I take to the foot of the Cross. Glory to God!

Prayerfully,

SFW.

Ps. I chose title, Saint because I am a saint just like you as St. Paul addresses his listeners. My penname is Fatuma because I have some Muslim back ground. 'Wakijira', because my God knows and sees everything I think and do.

DEAR PAULOS…… we truly love and respect you but I am sorry to say that u are not on the right track .You are committing the same mistake that the crusaders did….u are trying to win truth through merciless and FORCEFULL WORDS….NOT RIGHT.
Insulting people who have committed mistakes may feel good because we are human beings and its our nature to ENJOY THE FAILURE OF OTHERS. but as Christians it is not CONVINSING. ONLY LOVE has power in CHRISTIANITY. BLOOD AND IRON DO NOT WORK as effectively as love..
If u tells the truth tell it with LOVE AND RESPECT……this is a Christian collection NOT ADDIS NEGER GAZETA.
.you must treat God’s people with the love and place that God has for them.Have you ever thought that God is more merciful than you?????Yes…I agree we have the right to express our feelings and ideas (I fully understand it’s a God given right) but we don’t do it JUST BECAUSE WE CAN.
Because as spiritual people we must think and be responsible to
Who may be affected by this article?
What does it contribute to God’s kingdom
Will it be constructive or destructive?
What would the deliverance modality of the message be in the possible good way?
Dear Brother paulos….. I believe you are a very good person with the right intentions but I am sorry to say you are NOT WISE ENOUGH to answer the questions above… .Because if you did, the outcome would certainly not be the article I see above.
IN REALITY There are many people who read this and are affected negatively (as you can clearly see above from the ORTHODOX REPLIES ) and God will ask us why are you a reason for the delay of their deliverance????????
FINALLY ….i would like to say God bless you GEDAMU AND ANTENEH people like you are very few….WITH GOOD HEART.
And to my brother PAULOS ,,,,FINDING MISTAKES IS VERY EASY……in fact, it is the easiest thing to do.. my question for you is
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM????????????
Nothing except writing this article and talking with friends about it and writing book about problems?…and many more articles that tell us about PROBLEMS…GUESS WHAT? we want people with solutions not another PROBLEM TELLER.
WELL, YOU HAVE SUCCIDED BY GETTING ATTENTION that you wanted from us and …..what ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH THE ATTENTION????
We are too much matured for gossips ….we have to act on some things and build the house of GOD . if you have a way to do so tell us Otherwise don’t bother us with simple talks.
GOSSIPS ARE EVERYWHERE WE CERTAINLY DON’T NEED THEM IN OUR MAILS AND SHELFS AND MAGAZINES. We want real actions and people to implement them. Save your insults for other group.


IN Jesus your brother.

Dr. Hailu Ashenafi,

I appreciate your response. One way a student can learn is by asking questions. Paulos is asking questions. Wheter his questions are valid or not, it is left to the readers to decide. I thought they were valid questions that have been lingering in the minds and hearts of many a Christian. Are they timely? Yes, they are. In fact they are long overdue.They should have been asked 25 years ago when the Christian Diaspora led by these and other "unincorporated" leaders dissented. Just one of the issues now came to the fore as a church in Ethiopia hosted beale-simet for its pastor. Paulos's report is an eyewitness testimony. Of course, the church and the pastor could have done anything they like without much publicity but they chose to invite many including Paulos. He could have raised the question with his own home church and kept quiet about the celebration. But, I assume he felt other churches or Chrisitans could also learn from what he perceived to be unbiblical practice. I do not think any body would just write an article just because he can do it. As many have aptly and repeatedly said, we are commanded to speak the turth in love at all time and cost. Knowinlgly hiding or being evasive about the truth is sin, according to Apostle James. So,I say shame on all of us who cover up the truth, especially biblical/doctrinal errors for the sake of finding favor from friends or not to offend anyone, etc. Teachers/pastors carry a greater responsiblity in this regard. In fact, we should be grateful to our brother Paul. We can argue until the cow comes home whether his motives are pure. God is the Supreme Judge and so let's just hung it there.

It rests on us as to how receive paulos's message. His comments are constructive notwithstading his lack of biblical experise.

I respectfully differ from you, Sir, regarding the benefit of the message. Had he not raised this issue, it could have been detrimental cancer that haunt the church. I think you should read again and again to get the gist of the biblical responses that are given here.

As for your question, "What has Paulos done to solve the problem?, he sought a biblical answer rather than going into the oblivion or gossipping as many of his genres did. It does not look fair to me to antagonize the very person who sought remedy for the sickness of the wounded church. It is unfortunate that you could not see the gravity of the situation. Downplaying error or sin does not help the Holy Chruch of the Living God. This theological error needed to be corrected and graciously God brought it to our leaders' attention. They'd better be corrected. Are you condoning the prevailing personality cult that has captivated the younger generation? Is it the message of the CROSS AND THE CROWN or the glory and glamour of modern materialistic sucsess that is being preached from the sacred pulpits? Is Christ the Lord and Savior or is He just the Savior who would shower us with "blessings"? Do you think our "apostles" have the moral uprightness to help heal the wounded soldiers of the Cross? Can we ignore the hurting ones and just go on in life as if nothing happened? Or are we to say, "Let the camel walk away as the dog barks" like the saying mentioned above? God forbid! That is not Christ-like. At least remember the Good Samaritan! Admitedly, Paul might have used some crude language or imagery in his expression but we will have to forgive him as we would forgive our erring leaders. Ee thank and honor them for prolonged service. May the Lord reward them! We all need god's mercy and His healing hands. Let us forgive one another. In Jesus' Name, to the Glory of God. Amen!

With Calvary greetings,

Saint Fatima Wakjira
speaking is the truth

Dear brothers and sisters,

As I said earlier, I am very much encouraged that we are able to discuss issues that concern us. As children of God we need to fear God and challenge one another in the love of our Lord Jesus Christ. The Bible clearly teaches us to discern what is true from that of false and embrace what glorifies Him. There is nothing wrong with seeking the truth as long as we do it to be more of the praises of His glory.

But, what concerns me here is that some people exhibit a character that is not consistent to the Word of the Living God. Some do not even see the diffrence between making allegiances with the minsters they admire so much and allegiances to the one who died for them, Jesus Christ. Sadly, they would get angry if some one tries to comment against their beloved leaders whereas they show indifference when our Lord Jesus is despised and the Holy Spirit is grieved.

Even their anger is seen in their irresponsible comment. For example, one of our brothers calls those who oppose the whole fiasco of the mob. But, the word "mob" means "unruly crowd, wild, uncontrolled." Because some of his brothers do not agree with him that they should be labeled? But the Bible teaches us that nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves (Phil. 2:3).

Also, some one said, "so many went astray from true biblical teaching. Now that the truth is explained, I think they will get their lessons and keep quiet." In my opinion this kind of comment is full of arrogance and empty glory. First of all, those who presented opposing views from brother paulose have not provided biblical evidence why they opposed him. Second, it is not Christlike attitude to lash out and speak in a condescending words. But, with respect we can discuss our differences that edify all of us. We should not automatically assume that those who do not agree with us are led astray.

At last, let our love and allegiance be evident to the who died for us, the Holy Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ.

May the Holy Spirit help us to appreciate our differences with humility.

In His Love

Most of the article writers, especially those against apostleship seem to be there for just selling their names to the public. Two important questions about them. Who are they? I mean their back ground? Why are they interested so much to such a subject,living aside pillar issues? May be one couldn't think otherwise other than his background or may be they have nothing more to give us. The church should see that such people are selling their presence for just fame because they are just ambetiously affected to be known rather than to edify the church. Had it been so they would have been concerned about what is main than what is not.I don't think this issue is critical to the Ethiopian Church.

I see these people hiding the fact that denial of the provanence of the apostles bases its premese primarily in church history(15th C.), of the western pragmatic world rather than the Bible though such argument also most often try to look for the NT support. Such argument in its source(15th c.)had denied not only the apostles but provanence of the gifts at all. I know such people could't be bold enouph to honestly admit the full substance of the argument with the time such a thought had begun. Yet this is scholarly fact.

To our surprise some of these people in Ethiopia have been discussing and writing about the non existence of the apostles for the last 10 years which seems that they live and die for only such a subject.

Good for them but I believe professional/academic/theological expertise should not be on only such a subject.

My plea is for all of us to humbly search for the real problems of the Ethiopian church,prayerfully and thoughtfully offer salvific proposals as an outcome of our Biblical and theological trainings than just to puff up/show up. Let's all search our attitudes.

My comment here is mainly to those against than to those for it.

My appreciation goes to all especially Iyosyias and Memhere abraraw.



Leul,

Peace.

LET PEACE BE TO THIS HOUSE

thank you for being here and for being my brothers and sisters.

As for commenting on the article we see above and leaving the writer aside...be honest and tell me it is a christian manner to blame a whole generation and point a finger at a group of people who God has chosen...i am not talking about paster daniel....i am talking about the dangerous generalization my brother has used here and i think he needs somebody to tell him he is not right..... ( Part of this Comment was edited by the Editor.)

Dear all


THE PROBLEM STARTS WITH ME AND YOU.EVERYONE`S EYES MUST LIE ON HIS OWN DEEDS ....THAT WOULD BE THE FAIR FIRST STEP.....WHY CONDEMN LEADERS ONLY AFTER ALL.....
WHAT ABOUT ME,,,,,,AM I JUST BEFORE GOD?

I AM THE PROBLEM...YOU ARE THE PROBLEM AND OUR SEMI-TRANSFORMED HEART TAKES THE BLAME....WE SHOULD PLEASE OUR GOD FIRST....IF I SEE MYSELF WELL AND MAKE PEACE WITH GOD ...I AM ADDING ONE MORE HEALTHY BODY TO THE BODY OF CHRIST..AND THAT WILL CUMILATE TO A BETTER CHURCH BEFORE GOD

SO PLEASE STOP BLAMING OTHERS AND SEE YOURSELF.. I AM DOING SO.

GOD FORGIVE ME FOR ALL I HAVE DONE AND SAID...

AMEN

I tried to put forward my personal opinion, however, I am blocked for unknown reason. Are you selecting people with your favorable out look only? If that is the case do what is right at your sight.

I am realy impressed on your comments and cristics. We need people who have guts to exposse all errors and falsehood in the kingdom of God.Infact the very problems and messes we see in our country is the result of the silence of good men against all unrigteousness. God has never said to remove our mind but to renew it by His word.Any thing that contradict the truth of the Word,it should be rebuked,condemened and cast out as heresy regardless of their authority and fame. God bless you and keep the good work. Its myn deep desire to see men of God with intelegence and sipritual inlightments in the house of God.

So are there apostles today? Of course NOT. Here are the bibilical truth:

1) There are no apostles today because the apostles served as a foundation for the early church only. We should not expect to see apostles today any more than we should expect to see someone laying a building’s foundation on the fourth floor.

2) There are no apostles today because they had to have seen Jesus after he rose from the dead. The apostles were to bear witness to the resurrection of Christ. To do this they had to have seen him after he rose from the dead. Paul says that he was the last person to see Jesus. Since no one since Paul has seen Jesus, no one since Paul can be an apostle.

3) There are no apostles today because apostles had to be hand-picked by Jesus. Since Jesus isn’t appearing to anyone today that is a physical person, he isn’t hand-picking anyone, either.

4) There are no apostles today because no one today has the miracle-working power of an apostle. Apostles were able to heal any physical condition. No case was to difficult. These healings often involved the miraculous recreation of body parts, and even the resurrection of the dead. No one is manifesting this type of miracle-working power today.
5) There are 12 apostles in the book of Revealation. Paul is one last hand pick by Jesus. The Office of Apostle is limited to 12 people only. One cannot add to this number.

The Bible warns us not to be deceived by false apostles. Since there are no true apostles today,as in the biblical times, anyone who claims to be an apostle is a false apostle.

To Him who sit on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever. Amen & Amen.

Are there apostles today? This has divided the Churches and many has failed to answer it for many years untill now . I have nothing to say over this issue fornow, but I want to say about the born again people´s way of handling their problems us the family & the decipline of followers of Christ based on the Bible´s teaching.
"Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.Honor your father and mother which is the first commandment with a promise that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth." Ephe.6:1-3. Melkam Endihonlh edmehim bemidr lay endirezim.
O Lord help me!!!

"Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling,and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
Hello folks be blessed in the Name of Jesus Chirst the Lord.Let us be an example in our speach,in our life, in love, in faith, in purity. Let us not judge not to be judged & let us not follow this worlds system let us pray over the issue. "Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go!For if their purpose or activity is of human origion, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find your selves fighting against God." Acts 5:38-39. BE advised Brotheren, "Now we ask you, brothers, to respect those who work hard among you, who are over you in the Lord and admonish you.Hold them in the highest regard in love because of their work. Leave in peace with each other... be patient with everyone." 1Thess 5:12-14. And on the Bible it is clearly stated like this:"The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. ..and The worker deserves the wage."1Timothy 5:17-18. 1Corint9:1-15

Let us not be used by the enemy what is the good news of the above report of that ocation as of me it is not soft I can´t see the love of Christ and hamblness of Holy Spirit above all fear of God, rather it smells flesh if I am mistaken pordon me. As many said the report lacks maturity. as many thinks maturity is not measured by ones learning but by ones life style. And it is also possible to be well versed in the Bible & still be immature. What ever gifts or talents you have use it for the good & benefit of others & for the advantage of His kingdom . Let it be constractive."If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other." Galt 5:15. Now,brothers Where is the respection for the elders?Are we a member of Gods family? if so let us be known by hamblness, love,respect, kindness etc. Do you know that all the leaders are learners too? "God always uses imperfect people in imperfect situations to accoplish his will."(Purpose driven church, by Rick Warren) There is no one that masters the work of God in His church because always the Master has new ways to perform in our life till we reach Home.There is no repetion or duplication.Always unique & origional . Therefor no one is perfect except the Leaving God.Ones Jesus was amazed by the lack of faith of His hometown men,then " Jesus said to them, Only in his hometown, among his relatives and in his own house is a prophet without honor." Mark 6:4. He came to His own people but they did not accept Him. I hope we remember too "While Jesus was in Bethany in the home of a man known as Simon the Leper, a woman came to him with an alabaster jar of very expensive perfume, which she poured on his head as he was reclining at the table. When the disciples saw this, they were indignant."Why this waste?" they asked "This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor."Matt 26:6-9. Who will be more concerned for the poor than the Master Jesus? Who fed 5000 men exept Him. Let us do our part to help others like degu samrawi the rest let us leave for Him. Sorry to say it We are not accustomed to apriciate and lift up better men in our culture where ever we are let this yoke be broken in the name of Jesus. Let God heal our hearts and let this generation be free from thi curse & be known by upgrading the work of others and strengthen their faith, streched their vision and rooted and deepened their love for Christ and His Church. Let us arise hand in hand to win the lost at any cost. Dig your wells and call it Rehoboth. And for some of you please do not blem others for not leaving their place for you which they have paid life long services and ask God seek His face He can give you anaboundent life & service do not look in mans hand becouse he too is a reciver & seeker from your Father, come with fresh beginning and avoid your bitterness be fruitful it is the way to glorify God."This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples¨John 15:8 "We pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way: bearng fruit in every good work " Col.1:10. Do you know Jesus reserved his judjment for the unfruitful tree? (Matt.21:19)

The workers are few & it is also true today.This was said 2000 years ago by Lord Jesus. "Jesus went through all the towns and villages, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the good news of the kingdom and healing every disease and sickness. When he saw the crowds, he had copassion on them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd. Then he said to his disciples, "The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field." Matt 9:35-38. "Woe to me!" I cried. "I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty." Then one of the seraphs flew to me with a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar. With it he touched my mouth and said, "see, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away and your sin atond for." Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here I am. Send me!" Isa 6:5-8. So we are called to witness, to preach the good news to all creation to all nation at all time. Awake. "This is why it is said: "Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you." Ephe.5:14. We are one by the One who redeemed us. Jesus Christ.


Fainally, "Finally, be storng in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil´s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the outhorities, against the power of this dark world and against the spritual forces of evilin heavenly realms..." Ephe.6: 10-20.
O LORD forgive us.

Bless these generation
Enlarge their teritory
Let your Hand be with them
Keep them from evil.
ENTER HIS GATES EITH THANKGIVING
AND HIS COURTS WITH PRAISE;
GIVE THANK TO HIM AND PRAISE HIS NAME.
FOR THE LORD IS GOOD AND HIS LOVE
ENDURES FOREVER;
hIS FAITHFULNESS CONTINUES
THROUGH ALL GENERATION.

PSALM 100:4&5

The question we have to ask about this apostolic issue is not whether it is for today or not.But the giver of these gifts(offices),YAHWE who said I AM THAT I AM, is He still the same God? The bible says JESUS IS THE SAME YESTERDAY,TODAY AND FOREVER. Jesus gave these gifts including apostles for the church that means to bring the church to maturity,eqiupe and prepare saints for minitry (Eph 4). has the church reached to the fullness of christ? has it arrived to maturity and so on? no not yet and God is still buisy with his people till the return of jesus Christ our Lord. In my bielieve yes there are apostoles,pastors,prophets and so on .but as it was in the past there are people who have wrong motives and uneducated in the word of God, who abuse these gifts and use them for their own benefits. where else can you get free popularity,fame,priestage and attention as is in the house of God.

Lets be frank, if we dig deep and search those in the autorithy,how many are realy have the calling and the gifts? i doubt that.yes there are realy anointed men of God but what we see in our land is the opposite.some are called but not fully eqiped,some are called but exchange the cross to their own crown,yes some are called but labour for their own belley and others are not called but crowned with authorities and possions which is beyond their ability and giftings. Just as i said what i see in our land is the abusing of these gifts and demand total submisions no matter what which is called authoritarian,that is the spirit which is working in the land.well,i suggest for our leaders to clean their mess and if necessary repent before God. And for those who have false fear of speaking the truth against leaders well thats not healthy fear because the same jesus who said i am gentel and meek is the one who rebuked and called the so called leaders of his time snakes and grave yards(Mat23).because they are not realy representing the true God and teach rightly the word.on the otherside, Judging others is another issue.what is the motive when you judge someone? why? who? and when? is very important points.

I believe what pawlos put here is qualified the standard. God is more concerned about the welfare of his people than the dignity of one or few persons. yes these men of God are serving God but when they think they know everything and act cotradicting the righteous standard of the word,we have to speak out and tell them the truth with love.Don`t you remember what jesus did to the rich young man... He loved Him and told him the truth to sell all he has and follow me... if our motive is not lined up with love and passion for his house then we are accountable to what we say and do and God can not be mocked. He is still on the throne.

The bottom line is lets have the mind of Christ and labour for the things that is eternal.specially the shperds in the house of God,take care how you deal with your flock,how you use your office and gifts and above all how you handel this precious Gospel and His preciuos people who are bought by his blood,because there will be judgment and cleansing that will come against the sheperds who abbuse their office (Ezk 34).

Paulos'comment on diffrent issues becomes iinteresting however I would like to advice my bro not always and in all issues b/c it better to live some issues for those who are proffecinals.His article on apostelship is not theolgicaly sound and exegeticaly deep.it is a mere observation of current issue.please bro read some aplogetics books and serve the lord by defending your faith frome outside attack(herecy.you are more stick with"polemic" or problems iside the church.I love the way you write and apriciate your commitment.Tebarek wondeme in christ.

I have never seen so committed debaters arguing forth and back on one single issue. It is really encouraging. There are very many interesting threads and tips to develop. However, some commenters are so personal that they never try to hide their anger. If their anger were not immature and for the cause of the gospel, it would have been nice. But it seems they are attacking or defending persons ans personalities. Yes, Paulos had mentioned some names. What was he supposed to be doing? Didn't Paul the apostle mentioned names? Just a few - Alexander, Demetrius, Philetus, Hymenaeus. Didn't John mention Diotrephus? What is wrong with that? Or are we critiquing Paul and John or the inspired Word? I am not encouraging to scrutinize every little flaw and crucify our ministers. But when issues entail biblical understanding, we should not be afraid. Rather we should be bold enough to break the silence that is killing us slowly. Many commenters seem to opt for silence (even though they are not themselves silent). I want to underscore that we ought to be as biblical as we can. Not all of us are biblically literate. It is wise to quietly learn that we have a lot to know. Let's not be hot-headed and cold-hearted. At the end of this "debate" I hope we will glean some good points about present-day apostleship. To reiterate my point from my previous comment, there are no apostles like the 12 today. That chapter is closed. There are apostles (the gift is still here) who are sent by the church to preach the good news. THe kind of apostleship we read from Paulos' article is a new phenomenon. I wish I could read Pastor Daniel's definition of an apostle.

Blessings

Memhir Abraraw memhirabraraw@gmail.com

Hi, everyone:

Thank you, in Jesus' Name for all your comments that ministered to all of us.

We are all the Lord's disciples(students). The Holy Spirit is our immediate teacher; the Bible is our reference and text book. Our Lord is our model. Our teachers or pastors are like fellow students/assistant teachers/undershepherds,who ought to be better stewards guiding us in the instructions the Teacher delivers. We respect them for their position, better ability and knowledge, seniority, etc. Evidently, we admire their tenacity, patience, zeal, wisdom, communication skills, personality, charisma, diplomacy (?) etc., as served as many years. God forbid, if there is any rebelion or jealousy against them. We are in the presence of Holy God who judges the motives and actions of every person. No one should throw a stone of slander or disrepect on them. Truly, they are abatoch in their own right primarily by virtue of their age, long service, their obedience to God based on what they know. What is at stake here? There has come a time when a serious error is committed by them, intentionally or unintentionally. We are not judging them because judging involves knowing their intent. It is only the Lord who can do that. So, that also is not an issue.

Remember, the Lord invited Israel, "Come and reason together with Me". What is wrong if we reason together among ourselves? My only uneasiness is that it is done publicly on the internet rather than in a church setting where we could corporately pray, seek God's face enjoying the fellowsip in the Spirit. We need to confess our sins to one another so we may be healed spiritually.

We are not ashamed to tell our leaders that they are wrong in giving the shumet of Melchessedik to a mere man. We are telling them they are committing error when/if they are ordaining an Apostle over the church as in the Roman Catholic, who is believed to be infallble. That is fine, if they so chose. Then they would have to negociate that with the Pope in the Vatican! I do not think this is the route they are taking. If we misunderstood them, then we will be corrected also. We will believe their explanation as always. May God have mercy on us for causing pain in His church! We believe the Bible is the only authoritative Word of God, not the Pope or another "Apostle".

In late 1980s and early 1990s, these brothers claimed they were prophets and we took them at their word. We believed them as we do now. Later, we were told they were going to start YEKIBER AGELGLOT. To that end, they anointed/ordained each other in the presence of the audience.

They formed a powerful 'pastors' fellowship/association to protect their positons and interest just like any other professional organization in America. Many serious Christians resented but could not say much or do anything in the fear of rejection and neo-persecution in America. The latter were saying they should have formed a functional churches' association to safegaurd the doctrines of the church to colaborate and coperate in missions, evangelism and joint outreach, rather than forming a professional association. They were rediculed. That had been the state of the Diaspora church despite the pastors' fame. In Ethiopia, indeed their popularity helped them to jumpstart the church from its dark underground days in the dawn of the new "freedom" under EPRDF. Former members of Mulu Wongel, MKC and other churches which experienced the blight of the persecution flocked to and found themselves in the spacious rosey exotic churches with an intertaining style of worship. A new phenomenon of church growth, instant popping up and mushrooming stunned the conservative dominant/remnant churches. The exotic church pastors who had fame and fund seemingly undermined the existing leadership of the Fellowship of Evangelical Churches, probably to avoid the charges of sheep-stealing. The Fellowship leaders and other wise pastors looked the other, just like the Lord (Mk. 9:38-40), staring at the bigger picture, thereby avoiding any clash and confusion. PTL.

Further to this, flushy conferences and rallies attracted many to these "modern" churches. Admitedly, the exotic churches provided better facilities and organized leadersip because of their foreign connection including the newly arriving Assemblies of God which showed up to existence in such a hectic conference. Some argue amidst abject poverty, preaching the so-called "prosperity gospel" might have boosted hope for some youngsters languishing in despair and confusion to join the exotic churches. Well, so be it. Amen! Certainly, we find life and hope in Christ.

A few years earlier, they had been talking about lack of bishop for the Ethiopian Diaspora Church. In the recent years we have been told that so and so was apostle or prophet. Some were evangelist before they were promoted to pastorship, now apostleship. I do not know where
the promotion idea is coming from. May be the Lutherans may explain it better.

There are a few Pentecostal ministers who are called Bishops, Apostles and Prophets. If they are following their trend, that is fine too. But, that being their church polity, I am afraid if their essential doctrines are truly biblical.

Lack of hometown respect? No, I do not think that is the issue here. We all respect them at home or abroad. We do not want to worship them but we love and respect them. Are they fallable like you and I? Yes, they are, although that is not what we are trying to prove here. Not fault finding, for sure!

Anger? yes, holy anger, may be. How come any believer is not angry when the Bible, the Final Word of God is to be replaced by an "Apostle", infallable, "perfect man" equated to Melkessedik , as our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ of the Heb.6:20? Well, let me ask, "What did Jesus do?, to find the right answer:

Read Mark 11:15-17 and do a comparative study. Was Jesus smiling at and pleased with this incident?

All of us, have sinned against God: the offenders, the audience and whoever heard about it and have done nothing when we could tell it to the face that it was wrong. That is love in action unlike our culture. We have to speak the truth in love. True love casts away fear. God has given us the sanity, ability and wisdom, not the spirit of fear but sound mind.

Sugar-coated diplomatic responses will not help heal the house and build the body of Christ. Confession (1Jn. 1:9) and repentance (Acts 3:19)are remedy. They are part of our routine exercise as they are found in the Apostles' Prayer(Mt. 6:12). So, we should be a strong enough to repent publicly because this is a public disgrace, defiling the "Tsilat" (to borrow the Orthodox language). Are we to desregard the duty call of the minsitry and cover up the disgrace by blaming the reporter? Did not our Lord die naked in public for our sin?

I am breaking into tears before the Lord as I write this but I have to do that obeying my Lord. May the Holy Spirit touch the eye of our
heart so we can see it clearly.

Your brother,

Sintayehu G. Tsadiq

Dear readers,

After reading the article by brother Paul some weeks ago, I was extremely happy to see such an insightful, rational, and constructive critics on the behavior and actions of the contemporary Ethiopian church leaders. I am a little bit worried to see how Christian brothers and sisters are afraid of critics that definitely help Ethiopian churches to transform in a positive way. As to my personal observation, leaders are responsible for the existing low quality of Christian life. Leaders are really behaving and acting against the scripture that definitely encouraging many followers to behave and act in a morally corrupt ways. Many people spiritualize every thing and tries to maintain their status quo instead of taking such critics to change their ways. It is obvious that God is the only one who is able to judge. However, it is advisable to critically look at the way we behave and act. Often times, Christan leaders strongly works to build their own social, economic might. These is not the reason why God given them office. They are expected to serve the people. Rather, they use the people to make their life luxurious. I believe some body has to tell them and Paul took that initiative. God bless his soul.

Thank you Pau for your great biblical analysis and timely crticism to these deceivers and their sympathizers.........I know Ethiocross may not put this posting of minbe again as the editors are not bold enough to side with such sound crticism and I wonder how they oput your article on.
My message to such decovers is ,Philippians 3;18 -20
(Note:- Some part of this comment was edited by editor. Mr.Mekasha (Degone Moretew) Please Stop attacking the person. You need to focus on the subject. Ethiocross vision is to create a culture of constructive criticism and appreciation for one another.Express your disagreement by bing civil.)

hi dear paul, i have read your seemingly legitimate concers about some churches and their traditions thoroughly and carefully. i would humbly like to admit that you seem to want to have somethings explained to you, however i kind of lost track of what you wanted to communicate to us other than attacking the persons you mentioned in your writing. your writing is a bit disturbing and loaded with assaults. i would appreciate to see from you more objective and biblical writings so that we get some kind of edification, encourgement and/or a biblical rebuke. also, i think it would benefit the church if we were to discuss the existance of that office, i mean if it still operates or not and its biblical (historical) background from different perespectives. from grace

I have listened the Interview. Pastor Tolosa did not answer biblically the following question and the Interviewer is reluctant to post the video.

1. Is there apostleship today. What is the biblical ground. Is the Chapter of apostleship closed and limited to the 12.

2. The Video could clearly exhibit the event. It is the material source of proof. Why not post it without edition and let us judge it ourselves so every one could have a balanced opinion.

If these 2 are not answered then, every effort is a futile exercise, and in the absence of clear evidence to the contrary, Paulos Befekadu is proofing right.
The Pastors would have been credible if they base themselves on scriptural grounds and posted the video as a clear evidence to negate the article written by Paul.
Nowadays, Pentcostals are by far biblically well read and opt to demand explanation.

Bless you all.

Kalkidan

Brothers and Sisters
What Paul presented here is very timely prophetic rebuke againt the growing crtical errors in our Ethiopian church at home and at diaspora.Chrstianity and the cross never separated and these people were carrying the cross while they were at home in those tough times.But now things are changed and their preaching and their life style become cross less that is also Christ less.As the bible says the bite of a brother is better than the kiss of an enemy and real crticism or rebuke is good for the chrstian fellowship or individual.Look how those big churches now lost members and sold for the muslims.Is that not because of the absence of that true gospel message that most are not comfortable to hear now? I pray in Jesus name that the Ethiopian church refined and true chrstianity prevail as in the time of Derg.Have you not observed the compromise by our belivers community with the worldly people today? Where is the distinction that people know we are Chrstians? Where is our love that we dare to share for the poor instead of expending that much money for our fame and anniversary? Was that not the Bible verse to consider oneselfe worthless after serving others?
Paul ,God bless you and I pray we keep up in such healthy crticism so that we may not deceive our selves and others by twistinmg the gospel mesage to our personal advance.

wede wendema hoye
yetekeban sew menktu lemen asefelegke berasek lay deme lemametat new way
borather yemeleke neger binorgn dawitn endetemelketewu new. dawit besa ole lay egunendalanesa dawit endasayen tehetena degemome wedachen eyeshus endasayen tehetena benemelales aybegenem way

As a Christian writer Pawlos Befekadu should at least had adhered to the fact finding from the person concerned (no matter how long it takes) especially when writing such an article revlving around not the issue of Apostleship, but an event which in my view was made to bring an understanding of the subject matter in a bold way. All the narration regarding how many flowers etc.. is just a lot of salt adding to the story that would not hold water. But let us adress the subject Paulos really wants to criticize and find so many reasons to attack it..i.e. Apostleship!

Does the ministry of Apostles done in Acts or do we still have the ministry today? If so do we have Apostles in the World, and in Ethiopia today is what needs to be discussed here not an event done to Glorify God (since when we gather in His name whatever we do..wedding, graduation, baptism, eating etc.. we do it for His Glory..btw God usually cares about the motives even though we need to be careful of the conscience of weak brothers, like Paul, not to stumble them 1 Corinthians 8). So we need not judge others based on what they eat or how they celebrate an occasion even though we need to adhere to basic biblical teachings and and simplicity in our style may be preferred it is not mandatory to be expected of all of us. Having said that I would want to discuss more about the subject matter than the persons since I believe in God who is above all and don't think would approve an attack on anyone of His Children ..i.e all the Pastors and/or Paul.

The subject of the ministry of Apostles clearly stated in Paul's epistles to the Corinthians and Ephesians and for most of us who do not have a problem with the other ministry titles such as Evangelist, Pastor or Elder, there is no rational reason for us not to accept this ministry title. In fact in both these scriptures the word of God tells us that they are Gifts to "The Body of Christ" and given to the Church to prepare God's people for works of service,build the body to the unity of faith in the knowledge of the Son of God until we become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ . Hence, we have the Word of God, explaining why and until when these gifts are given.

Does the Church need these gifts today? Do believers need to be built up and come to the unity of faith? Do we achieve the fullness of Christ yet? If we can answer these questions carefully in a rational manner then we can understand why the issue of having these gifts in the church would be so important to the church leaders today. Btw, even though God is raising a new generation to accept and assume responsibility from the previous only those with the spirit of Joshua and Caleb would be able to do so, respecting the anointing of the Moseses before them that would enable them to continue on the work God has started in the body. Even David did not raise his hand or tongue on Saul (even after the fact that he saw Saul being tormented by an evil spirit) because he knew he was anointed by God in the first place.

So to my brother Paulos Fekadu, my humble counsel to you is when you view things appear to be wrong to go prayerfully to the people concerned and edify, exhort or comfort them with the Word of God. (1 Corinthians 14:3). As Christians we are told to seek the gift of prophecy for the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy. (Revelation 19:10). Also the litmus test for prophecy is that would it edify, exhort or comfort the Body? If not then all the negative speaking, (which btw is known as witchcraft in the Word) would not build the Church or the Body, which is the ultimate purpose of God.

Thank you and May God's Mercy and Blessings be with us all!

Meskelu,

Your comment prompted me to write this. I am old timer, way back to the Emperor's time. Holiness was a visible hallmark of the Pente Chrisitian life, a life that caused even the general populace to emulate the morality of their life. You remeber PM Meles envying the old Pentes! Even corrupt government officials feared God to the extent that they would secretly invite some evangelists or Christian brothers or sisters to their homes to ask, "what must I do to be saved?". Many officials confessed their sin and received Christ. l remeber there was a typical evangelist specializing in visiting high ranking governemnt officials in their homes and witness Christ to them. Everyone admired his boldness and ability to approached those feared men and women. A friend recently told me when the Emperor was going to Debre Zeit along with his entourage, he jumped in front of the royal car and forced the driver to stop abruptly, crying "You must confess your sin. Why are you persecuting believers? You need to be sdaved, Janhoy!" The kibur zebegna scooters quickly flocked to push him off but the Emperor ordered, "Let the boy say what he wanted to say". The brother was only 17 years old and did not know any better. When he recounted this to me, we laughed incessantly.

Many of the brothers and sisters thought that the Lord was going to come soon or marriage was sinful they wanted to avoid. They did not know any better. Almost all their earning went to support the enterprising evangelsts who would travel to the remotest parts of the country to preach the gospel, buy literature to distribute in schools and other public places, help poorer believers, etc.

Speaking of marriage itself was considered carnal and defiling one's holiness, as I said earleir. Devorce was unthinkable. Devorce of an evangelist or a stronger believer was almost totally unheard of. I remember though, a current minister whose wife used to abuse him had to let her go. Apparently, she left him for another man. There was no marriage counseling then. Unfortunately today divorce among Christians is becoming rampant. The most striking thing is that church is allowing and accepting divorced evangelists and pastors. So many explanations are given for that: he/she married at young age and did not know any better; she/he gave him hard time; their love is finished!; they were not married but were just friends living together; we must be loving, tolerrant and not 'judgmental"; as long as they cannot communicate why should they stay together?; God is merciful and we must allow them to preach, why should we care; it is their personal matter, etc.

I wonder if we realise that we have lowered God and His standard to our level. 1Tim. 3: 1-9 mentions of the minimum requirements of elders and deacons. I do not think a minister's standard should be less than that, if not more.

A friend called me from Europe yesterday and asked me, "Why so and so is remarried and serving as a minister". I said, "His church should be the one to answer. I do not know." He counted 10 younger ministers who followed his footsteps with regards to marriage. Are our elders, deacons, pastors and evangelists and other ministers our role model? What kind of legacy are leaving to our children?

Let alone carrying the cross of suffering for Christ's sake, speaking of his love and salvation is becoming taboo among us today. We prefer to talk about hair style, car model, children's school, money making business, going to America, etc. You would be witch hunted by some of these "pastors" if you preach Christ-centered gospel. Where are those old Chrisitians today? This is specially true in America where the pastors are mini-kings. They are very protective of their life-style. The members do not know any better!

These days prayer meetings turn to gossip lounges, church sanctuaries are becoming entertainment centers and preaching moment becoming soap opera.

Those big church are "now muslim centers" because Christianity lost its taste, value and vitality. You are absolutely right. The preachers stopped preaching the cross. They focused their attention on the benefits of the cross rather than the essence of it: blessing, buildings, prosperity, healing, miracles, gifts of the "Holy Spirit", etc. The aspire for the gift rather than the giver. Do we need persecution to sift us? No, I believe we can and should repent and come to the Cross.

You mentioned love and sharing with the poor. Some one told me Haile Sellassie hosted a big banquate in the honor of his dog, Lulu at the time of famine. Wow! That is outrageous! I think that is what Paulos is trying to avoid in the church. In stead of using ghe money for the poor and the gospel propagation, these church men abused it. Most of the pastors who came from America could have sent a congratulatory message and given the money to the church. I am sure they must have spent thousands of dollars for air tickets, hotels, etc. It is ironic that some American pastors have made commuting to America yeWuha Menged! What kind of church do they pastor in America, I do not know. They are in Ethiopia ever other week. Some pastors travel to America to preach in their churches when we know they have so many preachers right in their churches. Is this not wasting God's money unnecessarily. Do we not have preachers in Ethiopia that can preach the gospel in better language that we have to invite from abroad? Is that not wasting the resource of God's people. I hope no one would quote a verse against what I am trying to say here. It is not about Judas, the thief who pretended he was a prudent steward when the lady anointed the Lord with expensive perfume! Please, do not quote it any other. At least this one is not related. I sincerely wish the money was given to Pastor Daniel as a gift. I am not jealous, God is my witness!!

You said, what Paulos presented here is prophetic. Yes, absolutely true! The simet will go through the centuries to come as Rev. Tolosa said. Many will follow his example and become apostles like him. Well said. But I am afraid it will be a "nufaqie" or apostasy rather than apostleship, especially when the exaggerated gedlat (stories) would be told about each of these ministers. So, I think Paulos had better started writng a book based on the true report he witnessed.

May the Lord bless all of us.

I couldn't agree more with Sintayehu Gabre Tsadiq. You make me to delete my comments b/c your's is so perfect.

May God bless you.

Are lifes being changed through pastor Daniel? Are bondages being broken? Do we see fuits of the holy spirit in him. The answer is yes God's kingdom is advancing. It looks that Mr. Paulos is blessed with age to pass through the Emperor Haile Selassie, Mengistu and the present government. I may be close to your age. I am ashamed of myself when I see back and count how many souls I brought to the Lord and how many I delivered from bondage in his name. I do not know about you I do not dare to say much about pastor Daniel just because I felt it is wrong.

Your legitimate question is mine too, but I would frame it differently. I would call a debate on the existence of apostleship and if so who should appoint? Some one local or from abroad? I think the first question needs to be answered before you go for the second one as it is irrelevant to ask at this time. I would not use Pastor Daniel name in my title. You need to care for the people of God who are being fed by him and may not know much about the name. For me what is important is that the Lord still at work with him whether we call him pastor or apostle.

"The things that mark an apostle—signs, wonders and miracles—were done among you with great perseverance." 2 Corinthians 12:11-13

Could this be only for the ones during the Lord's time?

"It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers,|" Ephesians 4:10-12

"And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues." 1 Corinthians 12:27-29

Did Jesus cease giving appostles to church now? Did we find them to be false apostles as per the bible?
"I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false." Revelation 2:1-3 have we proven them wrong by thier deeds? We first need to prove if it is scriptural to do all these. I leave the debate for bible scholars.

For me the name is not important. Despite his weakness or shortcoming Jesus chose to use him and we need to allign ourselves with these people of God and help them. We can ask question but not putting much blame on them as if they are no one. Even if we can prove that appostle no longer exists, we need to be gentle on the men of God.
May God bless you

Brather pawlos GOD bless you

Sintayehu G/Tsadiq and Tesfaye Yadeta,

In support of what Pawlos had written you were trying to tell us how the good old days were. But I have news for you the Word of God also tells us that "God doesn't leave Himself without witnesses and even at the time of Elijah there were seven thousand that were His". So as "Jesus is the same Yesterday, Today and Forever" instead of focusing on the evel let us get busy on doing good things..God is the payer of all evel..as the last Words in Revelation tells us the eveil may get busy in doing evil but "We the generation who are called to proclaim His goodness a Royal Priesthood and a chosen generation would get busy talking about the Good News of God to this frustrated, confused, spiritually blind world to bring the shining light of His Son, Jesus Christ to peoples' lives. If you want to talk about only the yesteryear religious activities and do not want to PRESENT THE GOSPEL OF THE LIVING GOD TODAY, I would ask you to look at yourselves and ask the question why can't you be the vessel of the change you are talking about not just with words but with the manifestation of His Power in the Holy Spirit like the forefathers?

You see everytime we try to blame someone else for the faults in our generation we need to know that we also are accountable. Let us not try to become Pilates, but resemble Paul in his likeness to Jesus and bring a solution to our generation's woes. As to Pawlos like I wrote before why is it very difficult for you to accept the name "Apostle" and the celebration of a man called to be one? Would you have any issue if the celebration was made to a man, who was ordained to become an Evangelist or a Pastor (Please look this issue in light of Ephesians 4:12 and 1 Corinthians 12:28).

Also in celebrating one's wedding would you have any issue his friends coming out and saying nice things about him/her? Since when we celebrate (eat or drink) we do it all for God's Glory, why can't we view this celebration with good conscience (Bego Helinaa)? Do you think the money saved from this celebration eradicate the famine and starvation in Ethiopia? Jesus told us that there will always be Poor people among us, providing us with an opportunity to show the GOD'S GOODNESS! So would you like to be a vessel of God proclaiming and showing His Goodness or operate under the spirit of the accuser of the brotheren? We always have a choice everyday and I hope we all choose to be with the side of God!

May God's Mercy and Blessings be with us all!
Peace!!!

hi, Poul:

i didn't get the answer i ask you do you bornagain Christian?????????????? are you still love your brother??????? if yes, where is your love??????????

Bless you!
muluneh!

what sly question is this? Pls do not put such thing on net. Poul said all what he want to say because he cares about the welfare of church and believe that what was done is wrong in the light of the scripture. So, if you have any convincing argument of which support those who did that, Just forward on behalf of them. Because they could not able to defend what they did and show us how the scripture support them.
God bless you all

Hi brother,what kind of bad spirit passed through your heart?...........instead of blameing(sueing) them PRAY. they are your brothers.
sergut from milano

What is all this blame and accusation of American Pastors? I know many so-called devoted Christians do not like American Christians. What are you going to do now? Are you going to cancel the name that God gave him? What is the different between pastor and apostle? it is both gift for Christ church. Negativity is not spirituality. Any way whether you like it or not he is Apostle Daniel Mekonnen.

(Part I) “What made the [Jesus’] Apostles Unique?”

I STRONGLY agree with the very articulate Author & Bible Teacher of “Grace to You”, John F. MacArthur’s following statement: “The apostolic age was unique and it ended. History says it, Jesus says it, theology says it, and the New Testament itself repeatedly attests to it.”

John MacArthur argues that, “Six biblical reasons may be given as to why the apostolic office is not for today:”

And he lists them as follows:
• The church was founded upon the apostles;
• Apostles were eyewitnesses to the resurrection;
• Apostles were chosen personally by Jesus Christ;
• Apostles were authenticated by miraculous signs;
• Apostles had absolute authority; and
• Apostles have an eternal and unique place of honor.

In his book titled “CHARISMATIC CHAOS” (published in 1992), John very eloquently explains the above “six biblical reasons” further as:

(I) “The church was founded upon the apostles. As we noted briefly above, the apostolic office was foundational. Writing to the Ephesian believers, Paul said the church was ‘built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets. Jesus Christ Himself being the corner stone’ (Eph. 2:20). Although the point may be argued, some Greek scholars believe the best rendering of the text would be ‘apostles/prophets.’ Both words talk about the same people: ‘apostle’ refers to their office and ‘prophet’ to their function.

Whether that view is right or not, the verse clearly teaches that the apostles were appointed to be the foundation of the church. That is, their role was to give grounding, support, direction--to provide the underpinning for a fledgling church. They were the church’s founders. That role was fulfilled by them and by definition can never be repeated.”

(II) “Apostles were eyewitnesses to the resurrection. When Paul was documenting his apostleship to the Corinthian church, he wrote, ‘Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?’ (1 Cor. 9:1). In Corinthians 15:7-8 Paul records that the resurrected Christ was seen by James, then by all the apostles, and finally by Paul himself.

(III) “Apostles were chosen personally by Jesus Christ. Mathew 10:1-4 clearly describes the naming of the twelve apostles. Luke 6:12-16 describes the same event. Judas later betrayed the Lord and took his own life. He was replaced by Matthias in a special drawing of lots conducted by apostles themselves. They believed Christ would providentially control the lots and thus the choice (cf. Prov. 16:33). Paul had his own unique experience with the Lord on the road to Damascus.

Paul made it clear to the Galatians what kind of apostle he was: ‘Not sent from men, nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead’ (Gal. 1:1).

The original twelve (with Matthias later replacing Judas) plus Paul had nontransferable commission to reveal doctrine and found the church. When the Pastoral Epistles set forth principles of lasting church leadership, they speak of elders and deacons. They never mention apostles.”

(IV) “Apostles were authenticated by miraculous signs. Peter healed the crippled man at the gate of the Temple (Acts 3:3-11). He also healed many more (5:15-16), and raised Dorcas from the dead (9:36-42). Paul brought Eutychus back to life after he had fallen to his death (Acts 20:6-12). Paul was also bitten by a poisonous snake without suffering harm (28:1-6). As noted before, no such miracles were performed-even in the apostolic era-by anyone other than the apostles and those commissioned by them.”

(V) “Apostles had absolute authority. The apostles had much more authority than other prophets, whose utterances had to be judged so as to their accuracy and authenticity (see, for example, 1 Cor.14:29-33). When the apostle spoke, there was no discussion. They were already recognized as the revelatory agents of God. In his brief letter of warning to the church, Jude said, ‘But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ’ (Jude 17).”

(VI) “Apostles have an eternal and unique place of honor. Revelation 21 describes the New Jerusalem. Part of the description reads: ‘The wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb’ (v.14). The names of the twelve apostles are sealed forever into the wall of the New Jerusalem in heaven.”


(Part II) “Why Criticize?”

In addition to the above six points, John F. MacArthur, Jr. also states that, “We thank God for [Christian] people who believe in the Word of God. We can be grateful that they believe the Bible and hold it up as authoritative, though we are concerned about their view of revelation. We can also praise God that they believe in the deity of Jesus Christ, his sacrificial death, his physical resurrection, salvation by faith not works, and the need to live in obedience to Christ, fervently love their fellow man, and proclaim the faith with zeal.

Some might say, ‘Why criticize them?’ We do so because it is scriptural to be concerned about whether our brothers and sisters are walking in truth. Although it may not seem very loving to some, the Bible is clear that we are to ‘speak the truth in love’ (Eph.4:15). True love must act on the truth.”

Very PASSIONATELY I stand on John’s side in this regard!

God bless u poulos.
i really like z way u looked z thing.
keep it up!!!!!!

Please, when you write, talk, judge, and do something which can cuases judgment; please, please, lift up your eyes to our heavenly Father to know Him better so that you gona have everlasting life when you have the fear of the Lord almighty.
If you feel that correcting the errors, heresy or Fals doctorn, or else, and feel as you are saving the God's people by doing this, please, make sure first you have real fear of mighty God as well you'r not loosing... May God bless you!

I thank God for all of you, brothers and sisters, who took part in the writing and reading.
Two things:
1- for your passions and good intentions for the kingdom of God

2- It looks a healthy shock because it was done for the first time this kind of spritual beauty contest.

Hope everybody will take some lesson for next one.

(I think the next on the line would be Pastor Tollossa.)

If this causes you to stretch forward in the work of the kingdom of God, Let it be. Let more be shown in future too.

May the Lord bless you more abundantly than ever before.

Thank you Brother Paulos

I don't want to comment about Pastor Daniels apostleship but my point here is who told or which scriptural reference told those pastors on the stage to say the quqlification of an apostle is;

1. An apostle has no faults

2. An apostle is a perfect man

Haven't we seen the short comings of the apostles ? Even David a man who was called "Man after God's heart" sinned.

As for the office of Apostle. My belief is there were and will always be only 12 apostles. "The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb" (Revelation 21:14)

Excellent job!

God bless you brother!

Dear Yebegashet Fantaye,
"The twelve tribes (see Revelation 7:1-8) plus the twelve apostles (Revelation 21:14) are the combined people of God, incorporating the Old and New, built on twelve foundations, the testimony of the eyewitnesses to the revelation of God (see Eph. 2:20)
Our belief must be established according to the word of God, not tradition or some religious people said to us.
By the way, how did you see the Ephesians’ letter? Who wrote it? When was written? And to whom was written? And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers. (In Ephesians 4:11)
If I agree with you I will be mistaken, If I said Apostles are only the twelve, I am saying that Paul is not an apostle or the brother of Lord Jesus Christ James is not an Apostle etc…..
If I said the apostolic office is over, and the prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers are also over.
Your’e sister in Christ

God bless you abundantly!!!! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.

Dear Sister,

I really appreciate your comment.

You said, "if I agree with you, I will be mistaken". I am glad I never asked anyone to agree with me. Anyways, whether or not we understand it, Paul is one of the twelve. Perplexed? I know it kind of defies the human explanation.

It is never my intention to offend anyone but just to share my opinion: Craving for fame among Christians is shame. These days, FAME seems to be everywhere and people seem to want it more than ever. Again they are ONLY TWELVE!

God bless you my sister and despite our differences, let us keep our oneness.

Yebegashet Fantaye

Sellam,


Dear yebegaeshet you said, “It is never my intention to offend anyone but just to share my opinion:”

Dear brother, no one will be offended by your beliefs or opinions; it will bring us to the bible. This will help us to search the bible and develop our spiritual walk with Lord and to bring blessing to our families, friends etc…. First let’s look at the word apostle. There are several translations in the New Testament of the Greek word referring to the apostles. One of these translations is apostles, meaning “a delegate; one sent with full power of attorney to act for another.” An apostle is a divine delegate-one who has come to the people of the world, representing the trinity in heaven. The apostle does not act in his own behalf; he is anointed by the Holy Spirit to act in behalf of the Body of Christ, the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ. In other words, an apostle is one delegated with the power of attorney to act in behalf of the Lord Jesus Christ, sent by the power of the Holy Ghost to us. If we agree with this statement why then today apostle’s office is not operating as before? Is the Holy Sprit finished his assignment? Or there are no any believers on the earth to be a divine delegate to work God’s business? If you want who was apostle in New Testament beside the TWELVE. I will give it to you. Please don’t read only Amharic Bible read other translation too, see the Greece word and check them if you want to be a scholar or a student of the word.

The First Twelve (Matthew 10:2-4)
Mathias, (Acts 1:26)
Barnabas, (1 Corinthians 9: 5-6)
Andronicus and Junia (Romans 16:7)
Apollos. (First Corinthians 4: 6,9)
James the Lord’s brother (Galatians 1:19)
Silas and Timothy (1 Thessalonians 1:1, 2:6)
Titus (2 Corinthians 8:23)
Epaphroditus (Philippians 2:25)

May be the above scriptures has no much meaning to the Amharic Bible. Do you know in Amharic Bible says for apostles (Hawarrya, Meleketegna or Yetelake) , and if you check the in Greece language which is the first New Testament bible written has broad and clear meaning for Apostles.

selam paulos
ene yemamnew betekristian bemidir eskalch dires k 5 office andun bicha leyiten hawariya yelum malet anichlim
miknyatum letikim,lemanes tesetwal.
"lelaw yene mikir leante atifred yihe tiru aydelem lehulu yemiferid geta ale
1.cor4:3-4 pls read it.
this is my sisterly advice
God bless u
hanna

plees take care.matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Could anyone help?

If there were apostles in Ethiopia before, can you tell me a few names?
What was their role?
If there weren't, why now?
Who appointed the recently appointed ones?
What difference are they going to make?
Are they going to do something new that they haven't done when they were pastors?
Have they begun saying to the crippled beggars “I don’t have any silver or gold for you. But I’ll give you what I have. In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, get up and walk!” ?

God bless you all and looking forward to hearing.

Dear Girma,

I believe your complain is “If we don’t have an apostle before we would not need now?” the bible said my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge” (Hosea 4:6). In the previous centuries we were not getting the light of his word or we don’t have the knowledge of his word, still we are not reaching the level of his fullness. But we are now better than the last century at least we have Prophet Silesh, Prophet Zewdu, Prophet Daniel etc. (the gift of Jesus) is functioning in dynamic way. Go and read (Ephesians 4:11, 12). For centuries we know only Papas or Pastor, and evangelist, prophet or Bahettawi. Do you know in 1950, in 1960 around speaking in tongues (the gift of the Holy Spirit) was a big problem in Ethiopia. There was persecution in every where, so now it is a new for you Brother girma, that is why you are persecuting for those God had called them for his ministry. But I advise you, it is not a wise thing to persecute those Ministers, you are cooperating with devil to persecute the church. Don’t invite sickness, problems to your house. They are working God’s work. Your weapon is your tongue. And keep quit don’t give a chance to the devil to destroy your happiness, your peace, your finance, your family etc. Becarefull watch out your mouth.

Dear Brother Girma,

First of all, I advise you not to give your ear to our sister's comments above; because as usual her response is a wrong one (I am sorry to say that I don't know where she gets her distorted theology from). This time she even tried to add a warning too (by the way, this is in parallel to what your read in paulos' artice above that reported one of the leaders, who flew to attend the "beale-simet" ceremony, also warned the audience not to question the controversial issue). My brother, you've asked a legitmate question; and as a believer it is your right (and your obligation) to scrutinize spiritual matters that are practiced in the name of Christianity.

Second, this is how I answer your question: the office of apostlishp has already ceased; it doesn't matter whether we like it or not (or we understand it or not). The last apostle (it may probaby be the apostle John) has left this earth in 1st century; and after that there was not (and won't be) a single soul who was (and would be) lablled as an apostle of Jesus! As a proof, I want to refer you to Eph.2:20, which says "And [You]are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;"] I advise you to read this verse very carefully, and to give emphesis and attention to the phrase "[you] ARE BUILT" ("ARE" presently, then "BUILT" past tense!). It doesn't say "[you] WILL BE built"!! Not at all! Therefore, the Church of Jesus Christ is "BUILT" on the office, ministry, teachings, etc. of the the original apostles of Jesus Christ and the reavelations of the prophets once and for all! There is absolutely no reason to build THE Church of Jesus Christ again (or for the second (or for the hundredth) time!) However, that doesn't mean we can stop people from fantacy though!

Lastly, as our sister indicated above, it is true that God says "my people are destroyed for the lack of knowledge" (eventhough she has missed the point of the verse BIG TIME!) However, in direct contrast to our sister's analysis above, we are not becoming an expert in the Word. In fact, we are living in a generation that is literally distancing itself from the "real" truth and "real" message of the Bible from day to day; and in addition, we are witnessing that we are living in a generation that is adding errors at an alarming rates every other second!


God bless!

Dear Brother Amare,

Words will be inadequate to tell you how much satisfied I am with your answer. I praised my Lord for putting people like you in His Church to speak the truth without compromising. I know that many would not agree with you due to the fact that most of us do not have a deeper understanding of the Bible. We just follow famous pastors and don't care about the truth. So sad.
My dear sister's intimidating answer was just frivolous and I wasn't looking forward to answers that are based on one's understanding.
While I am appreciating her participation, I suggest she take an Anger Management course.
Dear brother Amare, Again I can't thank you enough for your time and God bless you abundantly.

Girma

Praise The Lord!

My Brother Girma, it is me in return who is touched by your response! I give all the glory to our Lord, who used me to be a profit to you.

My brother, I agree with you on that we shouldn't allow to compromise the Word of God for whatsoever reason! Because this is not a parlament that seeks concensus: you either get it or you don't! However, unless we have a pre-conceived idea or a rebellious spirit, there is no reason for our Gracious Father not to enlighten His Word towards us. Therefore, we have to have a determined will and commit ourselves to study His Word deligently inorder to find the "real" truth.

On the other hand, God gives us Bible teachers. Thus, just like Jesus' apostles were educated (fed might be the right word) directly from their dear Lord for more than three years; and just like the apostle Paul studied theology under the feet of Gemalial (probably I mis-spelt?) (and later on who reviewed his faith after his conversion), we need to build our faith under Bible teachers who preach sound doctrine.

I don't have any reason to hide whom I harken to: Dr.John MacArthur of Grace to you and (I know the next name upsets our sister) Dr.Melesse Wogu of eom. Nevertheless, I also don't forget that these individuals are still humans; and therefore, I just don't gallop whatever they teach. For example, when I listnen a preaching of John MacArthur (who just thaught me sooo much!), I sometimes correctly predict what John will say next; however, I don't agree with his undertanding of the end times. Therefore, we need to ask "Is that so?" and just like the Berreans we need to assign time to study the Bible and corfim what the preacher saying is true!

May God bless you richly too.

Dear Giram and Amare , I just laughing with your answers. It makes my day very happy and glade. Anyhow Girma I don’t have anger management course but I have convincing course. That means the deceived one to bring them in the light, which is to the word of God. I am not walking what the tradition teachs me or people said it or some religion leaders thought it. But I walk what I believe. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. If it is written I believe it, if is not forget it, I put it in the garbage.
Dear Amare and Girma if you said that, there is no more apostolic office; give me scripture that it says this gift is ceased. But in my side I will give you this.
I hope all my answers bring knowledge and help you to researching in deeper dimensions. Brother Girma and Brother Amare I have one question for you.
Why Paul was not one of the twelve, but he was called an apostle. It is evident that there were more apostles than the twelve, Matthias became the thirteenth apostle because Judas had betrayed the Lord and committed suicide. He took Judas’ place in the original twelve.
The fourteenth apostle was not Paul; it was James, the Lord’s brother. Paul, speaking of his visit to Jerusalem, declares that he met James, the brother of the Lord, who was an apostle. “But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord’s brother” (Gal. 1:19)
There were two men named James in the apostolic group, but neither of them was the son of a Mary. Hence, this James was Jesus’ brother, another apostle. During Jesus earthly ministry, James did not believe His claims. After the resurrection of Christ, he became a believe ands was present at Pentecost (Acts 1:14). I can give you more and more scriptures.
So we see that there were other apostles besides the original twelve. Evidently the office of apostle was to continue in the Church.
Only God can set apostles in the Church. Whoever usurps this position is a false apostle. Some who attempted to do this in the Early Church were denounced (2 Cor. 11:13-15). False apostles are identified by their failure to produce the works of an apostle. In the Early Church false apostles were tried and exposed.
But it is evident that the office prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers and d apostle are needed in the Church today. Jesus Christ is not changed. Yesterday today and forever HE is the same.
Please when you study bible read other bibles too.

Dear my sister:

Now you are talking girl! I believe this is how we should communicate; i.e., instead of calling names (and threatening your brothers), you come up and defended your understanding with Scriptural references (like above). Well done! I thank and commend you for this; and advise you to keep it up.

Now getting back to our issue at hand; before I answer your question, I want to hear first how you understand Eph.2:20 [which you have overlooked!] In addition, when I said "original" apostles, I didn't exclude the apostle paul (& matthias); not at all! Because they are surely one of the "original" apostles of Jesus.

Blessings to you!

p.s. I wonder what makes you think we don't read other Bibles?... written in english? (for your information, I not only read different versions of the Bible, but also I use Bible Concordance too)

Girma, Bravo!!! for the crucial questions.
Amare, Thank you for your amazing answers. You have been of benefit to me too. Every time I visit this website, first, I am looking for your names to read your answers and comments prior to others because I learn soooooo much. By the way, I have a high regard for Dr.John MacArthur and Dr. Mellese Wogu and my admiration for them continues to grow. (But, what is John's insight about the end times?) please tell me briefly if you have time. Brother, I have added you to my list of the few people who I would love to learn from:)
Sister, I think, it is you who needs to read other Bibles.
With Christ's love,
Yeb

Brother Yeb;

The blessing is all mine too. And let the Name of Our dear Lord be glorified forever and ever. Amen. It is His Spirit (and in His Will) that He enlightens His Word to us.

As far as end times are concerned, John MacArthur preaches the "Pre-millennia" view. You might be familiar with this, but the concept of "millennia" is derived from the Book Revelation (chapter 20) where 1000 years is disclosed. For example, look at the following: "And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a [the] thousand years." [v.20] The other "key item" in the "millennia" view of the end times is: The Great Tribulation written in The Gospel of Mattewh (chapter 24) and The Book of Daniel (I forgot the chapter-probably chapter 12?).

Based on the above two "key items", the "millennia" teaching of the end times is divided into three views: (i) "pre-millennia"; (II) "a-millennia"; and (iii) "post-millennia". The "pre-millennia" theologians argue (and believe) that the church would "rapture" (you don't find this Word in the Holy Scriptures, but the concept is there: like Enoch & Elias were "caught-up" to heaven) before the Great Tribulation. Not only that, based on Rev.20:40 (above), specifically the sentence "...THEY [i.e., believers] LIVED AND REIGNED WITH CHRIST FOR A THOUSAND YEARS" they teach (and believe) that there will come a time for Christ and Believers reigning in this earth (particularly in Jerusalem) for 1000 years, which would take place after The Great Tribulation.

Yeb, I hope that this would answer your question. Thanks for the encouragement, and may God bless you abundantly!

Dear Amare,
Dear Amare I love to discuss with you, because you bring scriptures not arguments over words. That brings us to dig more the word of God.

My answer for this scripture (Eph. 2:20) is this, Apostles and prophets mentioned in this scripture should be distinguished from the scripture in (Eph. 4:11) the founding apostles are means here as in Rev. (21:14), while the later reference (Eph. 4:11) is to the ongoing mission of Apostles, who serve the church of Christ in a more general way.
If you said Paul and Matthias are original apostles, I hope we learned basic mathematics which is addition and subtraction. According to your definition they will be 13 apostles’ then the original apostles was only 12 not 13. What do you do with the one? (Revelation 21:14)

DearYebegashet Fantaye,
I think, all of us we need to read other Bibles include yourself.

your sister,

Dear Amare Pleas watch this website http://en.believethesign.com/index.php?title=
under this title 1) Mussolini would invade Ethiopia, and later come to a shameful demise.

My dear sister:

God bless you for the Scriptural constructed recent post; and thanks for the kind words & may God bless you richly! [I'll try to touch on some of the issues that you've raised above...]

I) The “Original” Apostles:

First of all, you’ve to remember that the word apostle comes from the Greek word “apostolos”; such that, this word has two (or double) meanings: the “broader” meaning is= a messenger and the “narrow” meaning is= an early apostle directly linked to Jesus Christ (I also found out that the word has a more general meaning: translated into Latin as 'missio', and from this word we get 'missionary'). Therefore, I don’t think it is a wise move to search for the word ‘apostle’ in The Holy Scriptures, and conclude that not only the “original” twelve (eleven + Matthias and + Paul of Tarsus) were apostles, but based on this-and-that verse, so-and-so are also apostles too. For example, you’ve identified James (who is half-brother of Jesus) as an apostle. I respectfully disagree with you, because if you look the verse (Gel.1:19) very carefully, Paul is actually “differentiating” James (the Lord’s brother) from the rest of (the “other”) apostles. It is clearly written in the Amharic and English: “But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother” [at least KJV]. Furthermore, if you continue in this path, you’ll make a gravest mistake by labeling Jesus Himself as an Apostle [see Heb.3:11: “Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the APOSTLE and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;”]. I hope you got what I’m trying to say.

II) “Apostles and Prophets” (of Eph.2:20 and 4:11):

Moving on, the second point I want to comment on is your argument that “apostles and prophets” of Eph.2:20 should be distinguished from the “apostles and prophets” of Eph.4:11. I also respectfully disagree with this argument too. I don’t think there is other Scriptural support for this argument (however, I can’t hide to tell you that your argument is a very good one). In fact, as disclosed in 1 Coth.12:28 [“And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.”], the offices seem to be put in series of times (or chronologically). It is also wise to search for what Bible Scholars say about this issue. For example, search on the web and look at the following article:

---Ephesians 4:11-12 "Some as Apostles..."(by Dr. Donald T. Williams)---

III) 12 or 13?

Lastly, let move-on to your hardest argument/challenge; i.e.: “how many are the “original” apostles?” Well, my dear sister, first of all I want to remind you that I have used quotation marks (consistently) when I refer the apostles as “original” & “church-founding” apostles. The reason being, I was trying to refer to Jesus’ apostles of the first century; i.e., the first eleven apostles (Peter, Andrew, James & John, Philip, Barthelomew/Nathanael/, Matthew, Thomas-Didymus, James, Thaddeus and Simon the Zealot) who were with Jesus from start to finish (i.e., resurrection & ascending); then these apostles (with the leadership of Peter) added (by casting lots) Matthias (Acts 1) to replace Judas Iscariot. Then we meet Paul of Tarsus, who is also known as The Apostle to the Gentiles. As you’ve indicated with our basic mathematics knowledge, this makes them 13! The problem is “how do we reconcile this with Rev.21:14: “Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb”? I will save this for the next post; so that, I want to give other brothers & sisters would give us their input.

A Brotherly Footnote & Request: I feel sad to see from the corner of my eye that many comments are deleted by the moderator of this website. I hope that brothers and sisters would be more careful in their languages when submitting their response and/or comment. Let us please keep in mind that: (a) we don’t have to be pre-judgmental to (or of) others (because we don’t know the other party); (b) we’re responding (or writing) to a Brother/Sister in Christ; and (c) this is a “self-test” of our character and our values as a Christian. Let us remember the Fruit[s]s of the Spirit “…is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.” [Gel.5:22-23]

I'm sorry if I'm talking too much :)

Dear Amare please watch this program thank you. Copy and paste to your address bar.


http://selamtube.com/view/327/benny-hinn-anointing-falling-prayer-for-pastor-habte/



Your sister

Dear My Sister;

I'm sorry to say that I can't find any substance from the website & video clip that you shared with us recently. As far as, the content of the website that you shared on 03/16/10 is concerned, I would like to inform you that after the last Book of the Bible is completed, there is no other direct revelation from God; i.e., the Cannon is closed! As a proof (and warning) look @ the following: "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book"[Rev.22:19]

As for the video-clip that you shared on 03/20/10, it is neither related to our subject, nor it is my favorite subject in any way. A lot can be said about the clip, but I don't see any Scriptural support for what we witness happening on the religious gathering. For example, you don't find any record in the Bible where "a man of God" to say "touch!" and the other person falling backwards! Not a single record! Nadda!

Therefore, I hope that we should spend our time and energy on the issue we have at our hand; i.e., the office of apostles. And I wish we should concentrate and dig into the Word of God more and more, instead of following up "strong dellusions" [see around II Thess.]

Have a blessed day!

Dear Amare
I am glade to discuss with you concerning the apostolic office. As you understood from my answer, I believe that the five offices or the five fold ministry gifts, which are the gifts of Christ still, are working. The bible said, He (Jesus Christ) ascended on high He led captivity captive and gave gifts to men, And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers (Ephesians 4: 8-11). It is clear that not before he died or not before resurrection but (v.8) said when He ascended on high. We can see from this scripture alone the gifts of Lord Jesus Christ given when he ascended means first he died and rose again and ascended.
Dear Amare you said that “For example, you’ve identified James (who is half-brother of Jesus) as an apostle. I respectfully disagree with you,” well, well, well, in my Amharic Bible the title of James book is written this way “yehawareyaw yeyakob melleekkett” it means “the Apostle of James Epistle.” So, if you said Apostle James is not an Apostle the scripture will not support you. (Gal. 1:13).
Dear Amare you said this “apostles and prophets of Eph.2:20 should be distinguished from the apostles and prophets of Eph.4:11. I also respectfully disagree with this argument too”. Well, well, well, if you see (Eph. 4:8) the bible said, He (Jesus Christ) ascended on high He led captivity captive and gave gifts to men. Dear Amare when did Jesus gave gifts in this verse? It is clearly that after He ascended on high not before he died, after he died and rose again and he ascended on high so we must distinguished between (Eph 4:11) from (Eph 2:20).
Dear Amare other your question is “Then we meet Paul of Tarsus, who is also known as The Apostle to the Gentiles. As you’ve indicated with our basic mathematics knowledge, this makes them 13! The problem is “how do we reconcile this with Rev.21:14: Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb”? well, well, well, we can see from (Eph 2:20 and Rev. 21:14) are the same, because, These apostles were chosen during the second year of Christ’s ministry after he had prayed all night. Although Jesus was surrounded by enemies who were plotting his death, he was more concerned about the future. He chose men to spread the good news of the redemption which he was about to win. And 1) These men were called by Jesus; 2) They followed him during his entire public ministry; 3) They witnessed in public, especially after Pentecost, about the Resurrection and work of Jesus; 4) They were eyewitnesses to the Lord’s works and words.
But others were appointed as apostles at later times (Jesus Christ ascended) and other purposes, including Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, and Barnabas (Acts 14:14). Lesser-known people are also referred to as apostles, including Andronicus and Junias (Romans 16:7), Timothy and Silas (I Thessalonians 2:6) and James, the Lord’s brother (Galatians 1:19). And they are in the category of (Eph 4:8-11). This is the difference between (Eph. 2:20 and Eph. 4:11).
Dear Amare, with respect the Book of Acts is not sealed yet, still is opened until Lord Jesus Christ comes back. What has been taken in the book of Acts, it has been taking place with full authority and power in our generation too. And today Apostle Daniel Mekonnen, Apostle Zewdie Gebreselassie, Apostle Daniel Sileshi etc… for Ethiopian people. According to (Eph. 4:8-11) they are Apostles, but they are not according to (Eph 2:20 and Rev. 21:14).

Dear My Sister:

First of all, God bless and thank you for quickly reversing your gear to our subject. Second, from the way I read your response, it looks like you’ve “made up your mind” not to change your stand “no matter what!” Well, I just want to advise you it is good to open ourselves to learn from each other; so that we gradually grow (and approaching God’s TRUTH) one-step-at-a-time. Anyways, I will just try to touch on some of the points that you’ve raised above; and then try to focus on the “twelve apostles of the Lamb” as disclosed on Rev.21:14.

(i) Regarding James/Jacob/Yacob,
Let me ask you this: which one of the following is correct? “The Gospel of Matthew”, or “The Gospel According to Matthew”, or “The Gospel According to St. Matthew”, or “Matthew”? You’ve to remember that Titles of the 66 Books of the Bible ARE NOT “inspired” Words of God. Let me give you another example: I have a Bible that opens the Book of Hebrews as something like (Amharic): “The Epistles of Paul to the Hebrews…” However, Bible Scholars are not certainly sure that Hebrews was written by the apostle Paul. Final example would be: “Psalms”, which is titled as: “The Songs”; “The Psalms of David /Mezmure Dawit/”…etc.

(ii) Regarding your Scripture quotation [Eph.7-10],
“But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. Therefore He says:
“When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”…”

I am not sure how the passage (and your reference) relates to Eph.4:11? In addition, I want to remind you that, Paul is “indirectly” quoting an Old Testament verse; i.e., Psalm 68:18 [see website above which might help]... At any rate, I believe that the church founding “apostles & prophets” of Eph.2:20 and the “apostles & prophets” of Eph.4:11 that the LORD gave to the church are the same; i.e., shouldn’t be distinguished one from the other.

(iii How about Rev.21:14 “Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.”?

I was hoping that to read comments on Rev.21:14 from our fellow brother/sisters. As far as I can see, I believe that we can approach to interpret Rev.21:14 from two different angels: “literal” and “contextual” interpretation of the passage. After explaining these two, I’ll just add one more remark as a footnote.

- (a) The “Literal” Interpretation of Rev.21:14,
First of all, we have to remember that it is the Lord Jesus (none other) Himself who named the “original” twelve as “Apostles”; look @ Luke 6:13-16 “And when it was day, He called His disciples to Himself; and from them He chose twelve whom He also named apostles: Simon, …”] However, as we well know, Judas Iscariot “became a traitor”; and obviously his name wouldn’t be on the foundations of the wall of the city. First of all, I remind myself that I’m not in any way in a position to “scratch” either “Matthias” or “Paul” and/or “dethrone” their “apostle” title. But I ask the following question to myself: would God put the name “Matthias” (whom the remaining eleven apostles chose by lot) or the name “Paul” (whom the LORD Jesus Himself chose to be an Apostle)? Well, the simple answer I can give is: He [God] can put whatever name he wants on the foundation; and He is not obliged to tell us! You might ask “why?” Because I also try not to forget that “The secret things belong unto the LORD our God:” (Deut.29:29); and also “…Also He [God] has put eternity in their hearts, except that no one can find out the work that God does from beginning to end.”(Eccl.3:11). I hope I’m clear in my first point.

- (b) The “Contextual” Interpretation of Rev.21:14,
Let me move on to the “contextual” interpretation, which is my favorite approach. When we read and study Revelation 21 (especially from verse 9 to the end), the passage is talking about John’s vision of “The New City” “Jerusalem”, “descending from heaven”. In addition, the angel said to John “The New Jerusalem” is not only the “bride” but also “the wife” of “the Lamb.” As far as I can understand, this passage (Rev.21:9+) IS NOT talking about a “literal” city ascending from heaven. It is talking about “the CHURCH of Jesus Christ”, which is described in other places as a “bride” of Chris, and also described (for example, in Ephesians 1:23; 3:16; 4, 12, 16; & 5:30) as “Body of Believers.” Therefore, this passage is basically repeating (and re-enforcing) what we read in Eph.2:20: “And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;”

Well, my dear sister: as much as it is hard, I have tried to make as the response as simple (and as compact) as I can. And I’m sorry if this looks like “Interpreting Revelation 101” :) (or something of that sort) … God bless you richly!

p.s. Not make the comment more complex (or not to add more confusion to it), I'll save the remark for some other time.

may be the text u wight came from non spiritual need.so man who made and give his life for god can have the sane idea u wright that makes you a writer not interested what he give but what he try so.a thing that 100 good things multiply by zero

Hi Amare, hope all is well with you. Just a little note to say thank you for your time.
Also, I was wondering if you have a website that I can visit. I really would like to continue to learn from you on a regular basis.

Don't understand Moges' comment. Did you get it?

God Bless You All !!!

Yeb

Dear Brother Yeb:

Unfortunately, I don’t have a web-site (but thank you for request, and I take your request as a brotherly compliment: God bless your heart!); however, you can check the attached blog (where I’ve been posting comments since June of last year). You can say that this blog has become a place where “I talk to myself” recently (you will see what I am saying when you give a visit…)

To give you a heads-up, up to now I’ve put comments and/or information on subjects like: ‘Salvation’, ‘Baptism of the Spirit’, ‘Tongues’ and ‘Miracles’. As an example of what kind of comments you’ll find there, let me share with you one of them as follows:

Title: Do you speak with “New tongues”?

1. The Great Commission: “Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” [Mark 16: 14-18, NKJ]

2. The Question: “Is Mark 16:17 referring to ‘speaking in tongues’ (i.e., in unknown heavenly language) when it says ‘they [those who believe] will speak with new tongues’?”

I believe that the verse is simply taking about “change of attitude after being saved.” Please be patient because, I’ll explain further below. However, as a simple remark, it is not wise to make a (doctrinal) conclusion based on a single verse; and therefore, a person should also analyze the verse in CONTEXT too. When studying The Word, we have to be cautious not run into wrong conclusions rapidly, not so fast! Therefore, before making the conclusion that our dear Lord is “saying we will speak in ‘tongues’ (heavenly language)” after we believe in Him, we have to slowly (and very carefully) analyze the passage as a whole.

3. Mark 16: 17-18: Thus, returning back to our passage (Mark 16:14-18; specifically, verses 17 and 18), we have to investigate if we understand all the signs that follow who believe. Please note that, Jesus said that these [total=5] SIGNS will follow those who believe:
“And these sign will follow those who believe:
• (I) “In My name they will cast out demons;”
• (II) “They will speak with new tongues;”
• (III) “They will take up serpents;”
• (IV) “If they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them;” and
• (V) “They will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
Reserving our sign for today, SIGN II (“They will speak with new tongues”), for later investigation; let’s analyze the rest four signs (I, III, IV & V) that follow those who believe. So, if we read the passage causally, we can conclude that, Our Lord is saying, The following SIGNS will follow those who believe in Him:
• (SIGN I): “Will cast out demons; usually by rebuking the demon in The Name of Jesus!”
• (SIGN III): “If they simply take a poisonous snake (like cobra or viper snake; and just like as The Apostle Paul did in Malta-Acts 28), the snake won’t hurt them at all”;
• (SIGN IV): “If they drink a deadly-poison (like cyanide), they won’t die, and it won’t hurt them at all”; and
• (SIGN V): “If they put their hand on a sick person, the person would heal.”

At first glance, you might no see a problem with the above interpretation. However, if you carefully read the interpretation again (and again) it has major problems regarding the interpretation of SIGNS III & IV.

4. The Challenge: My question and challenge is simple: As much as we have the courage to “cast out demons” or “speak in tongues” or “lay our hand on the sick”; why don’t we dare to either “take a normal snake [let alone a deadly serpent] on our hand?” or “drink a deadly poison?” If the answer is because of “lack of faith”, where did we get the faith to “cast out demons?” or “speak in tongues?” or “lay our hand on the sick”? And why do we fall short on our faith to “take up serpents?” or “drink anything deadly?” Do you see the problem here? We got only 3 (out of 5) SIGNS correct; and we missed the rest two. God’s WORD being PERFECT (100%), we are only 60% correct [i.e., (3/5)*100]! This implies that we have a problem when conducting interpretation of the passage.

Another simple reminder: There are also many Bible Scholars who say this passage is added later. For example, this is how the Online Encyclopedia put it “Many scholars take Mk 16:8 as the original ending and believe the ending (Mk 16:9-20) was written later.”

Unfortunately, I disagree with this, because being the REAL Author of the BIBLE; God wouldn’t allow the passage to be in His Book if it was not His Word in the first place. Instead of finding a reason (or escape-goat), we can simply say “I don’t know!” Or, “I don’t understand the passage.”

5. The Solution: Well, let me ask you the following key question (I believe that the answer to this question would help us to interpret our passage):
• As human beings and regarding our spiritual concerns: “What is our REAL problem?” And “What is the REAL solution to our problem?” Putting it in another way, “What is the deadliest poison we have?” And “What is the REMEDY for this poison?”

Not going very deep and further, the simple answer to the above questions can be: “Our REAL problem is that ‘we are dead in our sins and trespasses’ (Ephesians 2:1); and the deadliest problem we have inside us is our SIN.” Don’t you agree? Thus, the simple solution for our real problem is “we must be born-again (John 3); and be SAVED. Furthermore, the remedy to our poison inside us (SIN) is one and only ONE – The Only begotten Son of God, Jesus!” Therefore, once you take this remedy and be SAVED the above signs will surely follow you; such that: “Serpent (Satan and his demons) won’t hurt you in anyway.” Now, it is you who is the one, not him, who leads over Satan: i.e., ‘you take up serpents.’ Additionally, since you’re already saved, a wrong gospel (which is the true deadly poison that destroys a soul eternally) won’t harm you a bit. I hope you are seeing where I’m coming from.

By the same token, when the passage refers to a believer “‘speak with new tongues”, it is NOT referring to “speaking in a heavenly language”; but it talking about the believer’s behaviors (whether his attitude or values or emotions) will change once he’s saved. I present the following Scriptural passage as [at least one] supporting evidence: “But you have not so learned Christ, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.” [Ephesians 4:21-24]

6. Before-and-After : If I may, let me ask the following questions to you. What was our language before we were saved? Was it not jealousy? Was it not slander? Was it not anger? Was it not covertness? Etc. What were our values before we were saved? They were basically materialistic (money, richness, etc).
How about now? Hasn’t love replaced jealousy? Hasn’t patience replaced anger? Hasn’t being content replaced covertness?

7. Scriptural Illustration : Before we were saved, our language(s) was (were):
• “Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” [Galatians 5:19-21];
However, once we’re saved, our language(s) change(s) [or should change] to:
• “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.” [22 and 23]

8. Where is Your Treasure? And lastly, I’ll leave you with this question: “what and where is your treasure now?” Because, “For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.” [Mathew 6:21]
May Our Good God shine His Glorious Face upon us! Amen!

Brother Yeb, I hope that you won’t think of me as a weird person after reading the above: just kidding! :) In fact, you are more than welcome to shoot me an email if you want to. Take care, my brother!

p.s. I also don’t understand brother moges’ comment above.

Dear Amare ,
I was quite for some time to give a chance for those who love discusses about the word of God. By the way in your previous letter you mentioned very good points about “John MacArthur argues that, “Six biblical reasons may be given as to why the apostolic office is not for today:”

And he lists them as follows:
• The church was founded upon the apostles;
• Apostles were eyewitnesses to the resurrection;
• Apostles were chosen personally by Jesus Christ;
• Apostles were authenticated by miraculous signs;
• Apostles had absolute authority; and
• Apostles have an eternal and unique place of honor.”
If you agree with John MacArthur‘s teaching and as you said, Paul he is one of the twelve an apostle my question is Apostle Paul was not eyewitnesses of the resurrection and how can he will be one of the twelve apostle? The second question is you mention about apostle James is not an apostle because you said different bible versions say this and that. Have you read and compare with the Original Greece or just you are a scholar of English.
My Conclusion about this apostolic subject is I believe that the Book of Acts has been opened since the Pentecost, so all the Father Gifts, all the Son Gifts and all the Holy Spirit Gifts are still working………………. I am one of them exercising those gifts. It is too late to say me that, the gifts of Lord Jesus Christ are ceased, it is too late to say me that, the gifts of the Holy Spirit are passed away, I my self tasted those gifts and I have seen those gifts working to me and in me and believers life too. All of those gifts purpose is to edify and build up the church, to glorify Jesus, to evangelize effectively, to deliver people from bondage. The Church still on earth we need those gifts. If you said that Apostles, Prophets and the gifts of the Holy Spirit can not happen today, if you don’t believe in those gifts at all, don’t worry, nothing is ever going to happen to you or through you.

Dear My Sister:

(I) This is how the Apostle Paul defends his apostleship: “Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord?” [I Corinthians 1:9] The implicit answer to his question: “HAVE I NOT SEEN JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD?” is “Of course! You surely HAVE SEEN Jesus Christ our Lord!”

Furthermore, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, the Apostle Paul also wrote to the Corithians Church as follows:
(II) I Cor.15:4-8:
- (a) “Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,”
- (b) “that He was buried”,
- (c) “that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures”, and finally
- (d) “and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles.” And at last, the Apostle Paul discloses that,
- (e) “Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.” Do you see the sentence ‘LAST OF ALL He was seen BY ME also!”

Do you still doubt that the Apostle Paul saw the Lord Jesus? Or, do you still believe that “our apostles of today” has seen the Lord Jesus just like the twelve, the 500 and finally like the Apostle Paul have seen HIM?

Have a blessed day!

Dear Amare, What can I say except "God bless you brother". Amare, I left Abesha's Church for Canadian's Church when the "holy laughter" took place. For years, I tried to tolerate the manifestation of the flesh such as; falling to the floor, animal noises, roaring like lions etc.. When people like me do not agree with things like these, they are labeled as the enemy of the Holy Spirit. So sad. Our sister said, "I am one of them exercising those gifts", yet never realized that brother Amare too is exercising his gift that is given by the Holy Spirit.
May God grant us the wisdom to discriminate between the true Spirit and false (flesh) spirit.

God bless you Amare for forwarding the blog and every thing. I have been reading your comments, God bless you brother.

Yeb

Dear Amare,

Look, Apostle Paul said (e) “Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.” The question is How Paul saw Jesus? In Acts chapter 9, yes Paul saw Lord Jesus Christ in vision; he wasn’t been with Jesus for 3 and ½ Years of Ministry like others apostles. The 12 were called to be apostles by the Lord while He was here on the earth. They eat with him they walk with him they laugh with him they sad with him they cry with him they pray with him they sat to learn under his feet, they touch him, they ask him questions, and they were physically with him. But Apostle Paul said “So then, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the vision from heaven.” (Acts 26:19) Apostle Paul’s experience was in “vision” according to Apostle Paul’s word.
Apostle Paul was the Lord's "chosen vessel". The Lord had a special role for him to fulfill and job for him to do. The Lord had chosen Paul and was commissioning him as an apostle.
It is commonly said that the apostle Paul should have been the replacement for Judas in Acts 1, and not Matthias. Peter and the others, it is often said, acted hastily in replacing Judas, and in fact were in error in ordaining Matthias. The Lord's choice was Paul all along, it is said. Paul was the Lord's "chosen vessel", not Matthias. Therefore, the Lord had to correct the impetuous act of Peter and the others by coming back from heaven and personally raising up Paul.
Though this kind of thinking and explanation generally prevails among Christians, an examination of the Scriptures will show that it is incorrect. A thoughtful consideration of the testimony of God's word on the matter will show, first of all, that Peter and the others were NOT in error in ordaining Matthias to replace Judas, as recorded in Acts 1. Matthias WAS God's choice for Judas' replacement, not Paul. But moreover, an examination of the Scriptures will show that, (Ephesus 4:11) there are more Apostles, prophets, pastors, evangelist and teachers are working in the dispensation of the grace of God which is today.
Finally, the book of Acts is not yet sealed, still is open.

Dear Yebegashett,

I am not from those who roaring like lions or animal noises. I am a believer who is exercising the gifts of the Father, the gifts of the Son and the gifts of the Holy Sprit, according to his word; properly, mannerly, with knowledge and wisdom. I am created in His (God) Image, in his likeness. I am a Human being. I am not an animal. Also My Father is wealthy in Grace and Mercy, he has a plenty gifts for me I am not lacking any spiritual gifts as long as walking with Him. Why I am roaring like animals? My Father is rich in his Grace. My Lord Jesus Christ never roared like animals or all prophets never roared like animals or all Apostles never roared like animals. Why I am roaring like animals? That is not I have learned from the Bible. With respect dear Yebegashete, “your mouth is very stinky”, has a Strong offensive odor, wash it and Cleanse it with hyssop.

The bible said “Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren I do not want you to be ignorant” (1 Corinthians 12:1)
The word “ignorant” means lacking knowledge. This doesn’t mean total lack of knowledge, but that the knowledge available can’t be applied to daily living. You crave and desire to walk into the supernatural dimension, but you have no idea how to do it. Lack of knowledge destroys God’s people.

Dear Yebegashett, with respect I watched you since I have known you at this ethiocross.com/blogs. You have no Idea what you are talking and what you are discussing. I haven’t seen you quoting scripture verses or books. Just only you are asking website, criticizing Canadian church believers, and insulted me with out knowing me, and also you never have any knowledge and life experience about the gifts of the Holy Spirit but you want to discuses with your carnal mental knowledge. First dear Yebegashete, “your mouth is very stinky”, has a Strong offensive odor, wash it and Cleanse it with hyssop.

As you said “I left Abesha's Church for Canadian's Church when the "holy laughter" took place. For years, I tried to tolerate.” I know that baby Christians are not to tolerate people, because they don’t have any knowledge to correct them according to the word. I would like to ask you a question, Do you have a child? I hope you do, do you throw out your child when wears a diaper and makes kaka? I hope if you are normal and grown person you will not do it. You will tolerate him/her. If you are cleaver enough you will get my message.

Go and participate with your Canadian Abesha’s church. Grow with them give the talent and the gift what God invested in your life. Not to hide in white church and live all your life by excluding from Abesha people. Take your wife and your children to Abesha church; do not filled with wine (bitterness, insult, criticize, etc...), filled with the Holy Spirit. (Eph.5:16-20). Don’t be alone be with your people go and participate in the prayer group and grow with them.

Like I said you before I will say you again, read and meditate your bible instead of criticized and insulted believers. Right now our discussion is “Apostleship” not the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.

My Dear Brother Yeb:

I hear you lound and clear, because I have passed through the same experience. I left my first church (after worshipping almost for 3 years) for the same cause. Excersises like: "slaying by the spirit", "holy laugh", etc. drove me out! After that I didn't join any church for almost 3 years (but you can say I was a member of a cyberspace & radio church though), the Lord was grateful to me and lead me to my current church (& pastor), where I have been (and am) fellowshiping with for the last 5 years. As far as I can see, it is a "well-balanced church" where these nonesense excersises are not practiced. Yes! I am bold enough to lable them as nonesense because they are neither biblical nor have any spiritual significance or value. Because they are not scripturally based, not only they torment the souls of believers and damage the lifes of many, but also they put a veil on the power of God's Word. Because of their silly nature, Christianity is mocked; and above all, as it is written [Romans 2] “the [precious] name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of [them]”! So sad!

Well, all we can do is fight these spritual malpractice, with the Sword of the Spirit (which is the Word of God). We are doing this, not to convince (in my experience, it very hard to convince "them") or not to win an argument; but to show that there is (and there will always be) TRUTH, and also at least for the sake of the poor souls that are deceived. The Holy Scripture instructs us to "save [some] with fear, pulling them out of the fire" [Jude]. In fact, read Jude (and II Peter, which parallels Jude) and you'll be amazed to find out that, these passages read just like a front page of todays newspaper on these "certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ."

But, my brother Yeb, I warn you to be very careful and guard yourself properly when dealing with these kind of people; because their claims and excercises not only have their roots to be cultic; in addition to that, just like an a deadly epedimic, they possess a "spiritual virus" that can spread at an alarming rate and have a very high contaminating power!

May the LORD have mercy!!!

Dear Amare.

I hope that our discussion is about Apostle’s office not the gifts of the Holy Spirit and his administration.
Anyhow, you didn’t give me the answer of my answer, but you jump from one subject to another subject. Did you agree that the office of Apostle still is working or ceased? If yes, I will stop my discussion about this subject, if not, Dear Amare, I gave you all the scriptures what I have learned and what I have believed.

Finally, the book of Acts is not yet sealed still is opened…………..

Thank you

Dear sister,

I just shared what I have seen in the Church where I used to go. I think, you have misunderstood me. What I have seen, has nothing to do with you.

Also, you suggested I quote verses from the Scripture and my response to your comment from the Scripture is as follow.

New International Version (©1984)
bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Bless those who curse you. Pray for those who hurt you.

English Standard Version (©2001)
bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.

International Standard Version (©2008)
Bless those who curse you, and pray for those who insult you.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Bless those who curse you. Pray for those who insult you.

King James Bible
Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

American King James Version
Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which spitefully use you.

American Standard Version
bless them that curse you, pray for them that despitefully use you.

Bible in Basic English
Give blessing to those who give you curses, say prayers for those who are cruel to you.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Bless them that curse you, and pray for them that calumniate you.

Darby Bible Translation
bless those that curse you; pray for those who use you despitefully.

English Revised Version
bless them that curse you, pray for them that despitefully use you.

Webster's Bible Translation
Bless them that curse you, and pray for them who despitefully use you.

Weymouth New Testament
bless those who curse you; pray for those who revile you.

World English Bible
bless those who curse you, and pray for those who mistreat you.

Young's Literal Translation
bless those cursing you, and pray for those accusing you falsely;

Dear sister, I could have used the same nasty words, however, If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come.(2 Corinthians 5:17). The nasty words I used to use have gone and the change of attitude after being saved, has come.

Praise the Lord!

God bless you dear sister!

Yeb

Dear My Sister:

I'm sorry if I upset you; however, I don't think I've neither failed to answer your concerns nor "keep on changing subjects". As for your questions, I believe I've exaustively answered ALL of them (I remind you again that, my answer to our big question: "do/can we have apostles today?" is "absolutely no!" because the office ceased in the 1st century). As for "changing subjects", I was just giving answer(s) (this happened one or two times, if I remember correctly) to a question(s) to a brother.

My Dear Sister, as for my very last comment, please don't be short-sighted. I want to remind you that this is NOT another subject at all! In fact, this IS the heart of the matter and the ROOT of our problem(s). The BASIC problem we have today IS NOT the question "whether we do/can have apostles or not", but the ISSUE we have is HOW WE INTERPRET THE WORD OF GOD. Specifically, the ROOT of the problem is HOW WE UNDERSTAND THE MANIFESTATIONS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. I'm sorry to point fingers @ Pentecostal & Charismatics, but they have a very BIG PROBLEM in this. Unless (I repeat UNLESS) they CLEARLY SEE, CORRECTLY INTERPRET & UNDERSTAND the MANIFESTATIONS OF THE SPIRIT, I tell you, our problem won't be touched at all! Therefore, for me discussing about "gifts, works & manifestations, etc of The Spirit" ISNOT "changing subject", but in actuality, it IS FINDING & TACKLING the ROOT-CAUSE of our problem.

Finally, I'm not sure of your statement "Finally, the book of Acts is not yet sealed still is opened………….." If you are saying "The Bible is still open for extra revelation", I respectfully STRONGLY DISAGREE and say "No!!" (A firm! no!) because "The Canon is CLOSED!" If you are meant to say that, "Christ is STILL building His Church", I AGREE with you and say "yes!"

Hope that I'm clear; and frankly speaking, I like discussing with you & please don't stop to further post your comments. May the LORD shine His Face upon you!

Dear Yebegashett

Thank you for the beautiful of the word of God. Maybe If I did use some uncomforted words please forgive me. And if you have any different scriptures from Amare concerning Apostolic office, please don’t hesitate to give us.

Thank you

Dear My Sister:

On your comment posted on 04/16/2010, you said that "...In Acts chapter 9, yes Paul saw Lord Jesus Christ in vision..." But my question for you is: if the apostle Paul had seen the Lord Jesus in "VISION", why was "he [Paul] was three days WITHOUT SIGHT, and neither ate nor drank"? (Acts 9:9)

Wishing you blessings!

p.s. I also disagree with the commonly saying, "apostle Paul should have been the replacement for Judas in Acts 1"

James 4:6 says, “GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE.” The proud set themselves in opposition to God, glorifying in themselves rather than in Him. It is not a smart thing to be opposed to God, so we would do well to think through Biblically what it is to be humble so that we can continue operating as God would have us.
"For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word"Isaiah 66:2
There is so much confusion and mis understanding of the scriptures among Ethiopian Pentecostals & charismatic movements when it comes using the gift of Holy spirit. Today Feelings or manifestations cannot be justified on their own as to whether or not they are from the Holy Spirit. They must be examined by Scripture to see if they are the nature of the HOLY SPIRIT. He is the Spirit of Holiness Rom. 1:4, and "The Spirit of Jesus Christ" Rom.8:9, Phil.1:19 meaning he represents Christ and he communicates these same properties into the believer which become the fruit of the Spirit in ones life. Gal.5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness (gentleness)---

Finally I would like to say God Bless you Brother Paulos.

Dear Samson, I think you missed the question of Paulos Fekadu.
The question it looks like this:- The office of Apostles is still working in Ethiopia? And what are the criteria for this office? Not the gifts of the Holy Spirit and His Administration.

Dear my sister, I didn't missed the question. As for the office of Apostle. My belief is that other than Jesus Himself there were and will always be only 12 apostles. (Revelation 21:14 KJV) And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. I believe that Paul whom Jesus personally called to be an apostle on the Damascus road will be the 12th name on the foundation of the city wall, not Matthias. And the fact that there are only 12 names on the foundation of that wall to me shows that there were only 12 true apostles and that there is no such office today.

2 Corinthians 12:12 KJV Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds. I will give you some examples..Peter in Acts 9: 36-43 raised Dorcas. Paul in Acts 20:7-12 raised the young man Eutychus.

2 Corinthians 12: 1-5 KJV It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.

Some of the Apotles how the life ended mentiond in the scriptues. According to http://www.theexaminer.org and a The Trail of Blood is a booklet by Dr. James Milton Carroll All of Jesus's Apostles never died by natural causes. Matthew suffered martyrdom by being slain with a sword at a distant city of Ethiopia.
Mark expired at Alexandria, after being cruelly dragged through the streets of that city.
Luke was hanged upon an olive tree in the classic land of Greece.
John was put in a caldron of boiling oil, but escaped death in a miraculous manner, and was afterward banished to Patmos.
Peter was crucified at Rome with his head downward.
James, the Greater, was beheaded at Jerusalem.
James, the Less, was thrown from a lofty pinnacle of the temple, and then beaten to death with a fuller's club. Bartholomew was flayed alive.
Andrew was bound to a cross, whence he preached to his persecutors until he died.
Thomas was run through the body with a lance at Coromandel in the East Indies.
Jude was shot to death with arrows.
Matthias was first stoned and then beheaded.
Barnabas of the Gentiles was stoned to death at Salonica.
Paul, after various tortures and persecutions, was at length beheaded at Rome by the Emperor Nero.
Such was the fate of the apostles, according to traditional statement.

Finally the office of Apostles is not existing today. I don't expect them to tell the truth people who are saying they are Apostles in Ethiopia. The truth is they are a wolf in a sheep clothing.The Apostle Paul wrote by inspiration from God concerning such kind of people . 2 Timothy 4:3-4 KJV 3.For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Dear Samson,

My dear brother you believe it or not all the ministerial offices (the 5 offices Eph. 4:11) are still functioning. If the Bible says, it is so. I am going with the truth; the truth is the word of God.
If you want know more about our discussions, you can pull down and read our previous conversations. Which is Brother Amare, others or Your Sister. I don’t want to repeat the same questions again and again.

Dear my sister, If you are willing I recommend you the following book to read.You can order it online or at any book store. The book examines charismatic practices based on Scripture.

The Corinthian Catastrophe
By: George Gardiner
Kregel Publications / 1975

hi pole i just read your comment and when i am say take the responsibility what you rite pleas kepi it up

Dear Your sister, very vey good explaniation, keep doing what you are doing. God bless you, I am blessed by your responses.i can say my sister instead of your sister.

I love you in Christ.
your brother Pastor A

It is true this is the result of "The consequence of Freedom!"

We have this freedom because of Jesus, who dide for our sins.
Let us ask ourselves what would Jesus say if he was standing in the midest of this cermony, I thik he will say:
Is this why I died for?
Is this why I paid a huge price on the cross?...
As Jesus tells his diciples in Matthew, "Watch out that no one deceives you, for many will come in my name claming, "I am the christ, and will deceive many,....""

Writer Paul, God bless you and protect you for your unequivocal insight on present churchs behind stage mystry.

Currently we seen very scary directions here in North America, Abesha churches.
If Christ is not the center of our churches, we will start seeing our pastores as if they are christ.

We need to open our eyes and reveal the truth based on the true word of Jesus christ.

God bless you all!
As Christ is one, Let us be one.
Ayele

Dear brothers and sisters,

The peace of our Lord and savior be with you all.
First of all I want to appreciate Paulos for his boldness and critics. I personally agree with the issues he raised if he is correct in what heard and saw. But piece of advice I have for him is as some said,for example comments of Zeradam, Solomon from Florida, Daniel German, likes, Patience and christian love is needed. Before we explore the weak sides of our brothers and sisters publicly, we should to correct them personally or within the church.

Secondly, for those who comment Paulos as not theological and nonspiritual, you have to mention his mistakes giving your biblical or theological argument. Unless you are not better than him or you know the word theology or spiritual only as a word with knowing its meaning. I do not believe that being a church father means being perfect as Catholic Pope say of himself forgetting his humanity. The crucial question is what does apostle mean? One commenter gave its original meaning, "the sent on." Then where? Why there was a question on the apostleship of Paul? Paul the apostle was defending his apostleship right in 2 Corinthians. Because there was some thing missing in him. He was not the eyewitness of Jesus. But as an argument he was telling that he saw the risen Lord with his eyes as the rest apostles. Then do today's the so called apostles have a word to argue that they are apostles? I think it needs detail and thorough studies to clarify all these things.

The Greek word apostolos means the sent one. It is a word for the one who is sent with special mission, a missionary, so to say. It is not primarily a word for the men with special gifts but of special commission. The apostles were gifted men, but their apostleship was not based on their gifts. The criteria to be apostle, if we stick to the New Testament, first the one called and commissioned by God; second the one who has seen the Lord (Acts 1:21). This why some New Testament Christians have question on the apostleship of Paul. Paul argues for his apostleship and says, "Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?" (1 Corinthians 9:1 RSV)

Let us come to our today’s context. Do we have apostles today? I can say yes and no.
Yes in a sense of the service. 1. The one who sent, meaning a missionary. But even I prefer to call missionary instead of apostle. Because even the early missionaries were not called apostles since they are not worthy of the title. They were not/ and are not as authoritative as the New Testament group.

2. As pioneer to something or new ideology. The Amharic word “hawariya” fits here. For example “yelewt hawariya”. This is also just a possibility to use the word not the office. Therefore, if someone thinks as if he is a pioneer to some ideology or philosophy that he/she is the first for that very thing he/she can call him/herself hawariya, but not in a sense of New Testament Apostle.
No in a sense of the office. In the New Testament the apostles were given this title not only because they have to be called, but because they have seen the Lord and sent. This is a reason why many New Testament Christians were not called Apostles. Example Mark, Luke, Timothy, Titus, etc. Some of them were evangelists; some were elders or pastors (episcopate) but were not worthy to be called apostles.

Through the history of the church there were people who want to be called apostles, even during the first century while the real and true apostles were alive. I think it is the same today that people thirsty for the name to be honored, special and unique people. Apostleship is not a matter of spiritually gifted person or being humble minister. It is a matter of being the eye witness of the risen Lord and sent. So to conclude my argument I would say we have no apostles today as the New Testament apostles. But we have prominent missionaries. Therefore, for me if someone says he is an apostle, it does not matters me as far as I will not give him credit of apostleship.
In Christ,

nothing but the truth. Bless you bro. Paulos. deception coming from the people from the head. that was the reason the scripture said" j judgement starting from the church obviously from the leaders.

Dear paulos I agree with your comment regarding Pastor daniel's Apostolic anointment.Since Pastor Dani is an influential person in the Christian community your comment is timely and necessary.
For some of you who afraid to see the truth pleas read the whole text with open mind and abide with the truth. We do not worship men, no men. We worship God.
God gave us His will clearly so be brave and read the bible. Actually it is enough to read gospels and Act to learn about being apostle.
As pastor Tomas mitiku said if you are apostle then get ready for demons who are reserved for apostles.
God Bless you all brothers and sisters.

God bless you dear brother! Really an interesting point. These guys are full of pride. And when ever they are challenged based on the Word of God, u know what they say '' u say this because u are filled with knowledge, not with the spirit.'' Funny! Unfortunatelly, these 'spirit' guys have lots of emotional followers who follow just thier emotions only. Such followers are just like the parrot, they don't have thier own word from the Bible, they say what thier apostles tell them. They never check the Bible, nor read it.....they read only yhe lips of thier preachers.
U know what bro! one day, these guys will fire you out of thier building....coz they can not stand the word. But praise God! they can not fire you from the kingdom of God!